Politics

[Rayvin 5329]

Theres no one on either side of the Labour divide worth voting for tbh. Too many on one side tainted by New Labour, the other side hopelessly unelectable in the eyes of the country at large, partly due to them being potrayed rightly or wrongly as a bunch of raving trots. A unifying figure is needed, and a return to NL's election winning back room machine.

 

The centre was always doomed as all the parties were effectively blending into each other, but realistically, old new labour caused this when they betrayed everyone on austerity. I understand why they did, believing that the right wing press had established their bullshit narrative about the economy, but that's what killed them.

 

What we're seeing now is the betrayed betraying the betrayer.

 

This will be a good thing in the long run I think. Not for Labour as a party, but for most people in the country in the end. The establishment got the kicking I voted Corbyn in for and I'm happy enough with that personally. Thank fuck something changed in the end.

[ewerk 31235]

No, I left the party after Miliband's election. I knew the game was up then, but I'm amazed what has happened to labour since.idiots.

 

That's the problem. You're an anti-Corbyn Labour voter who doesn't want to vote for his opponent and there are hundreds of thousands like you. 

 

Corbyn's support is far more committed to his cause and are willing and able to get the vote out and that is what will see him re-elected.

[NJS 4411]

No, I left the party after Miliband's election. I knew the game was up then, but I'm amazed what has happened to labour since.idiots.

From what you've said about policies you support which I can see is very much new labour, I think Farron's stance of offering a refuge for centrist voters might appeal - of course you'd run the risk of supporting tory enablers as well.

[PaddockLad 17721]

Ok...some of this could happen..

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/18/labour-leadership-contest-one-result-five-scenarios-corbyn-smith?CMP=fb_gu

[Christmas Tree 4858]

Ok...some of this could happen..

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/18/labour-leadership-contest-one-result-five-scenarios-corbyn-smith?CMP=fb_gu

Can't see a split unless they got the Labour brand, which seems unlikely.

 

Too many have said too much for unity to break out or be believed by the the public.

 

It will be more of the same with most keeping their heads down and hoping JC gets hit by a bus.

[Alex 35653]

It's going to go down the Corbyn wins - war of attrition route

[Dr Gloom 22188]

So it looks like 'Tiny Trots' is up and running, with plans afoot to infiltrate the woodcraft folk

 

 

 

 

Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters are planning to create a new youth wing, with a “child-friendly” approach to politics intended to inspire a new generation of leftwing activists.

 

Momentum Kids, which will launch nationwide with a crèche next weekend, is the latest effort by Corbynistas to break the mould of Labour politics by tapping youthful idealism.

[Dr Gloom 22188]

Corbyn now saying the huge turnout at his rallies shows he can win an election 

[ewerk 31235]

So it looks like 'Tiny Trots' is up and running, with plans afoot to infiltrate the woodcraft folk

 

Nothing wrong with getting the youth involved in politics but it does sound a bit like indoctrination.

[Alex 35653]

Corbyn now saying the huge turnout at his rallies shows he can win an election 

You see I had a bit of time for him at first but it's bollocks like this which makes me despair. Analysis on sites like Electoral Calculus suggest a General Election today would see Labour with even less seats and the Tories with a very comfortable majority of around 100 seats. I know you could argue he has to say things like that but I worrry he actually believes it He's got absolutely no chance.

[Rayvin 5329]

Nothing wrong with getting the youth involved in politics but it does sound a bit like indoctrination.

 

This would be a big concern for me actually - political organisations shouldn't be responsible for teaching politics to young people. It should be the job of schools to provide as impartial a view as possible. Very uncomfortable with the idea that young people will be introduced to and then brought up within one ideology's echo chamber. It's religion-esque.

[adios 717]

So it looks like 'Tiny Trots' is up and running, with plans afoot to infiltrate the woodcraft folk

Trotskytykes, shirley. 

[Rayvin 5329]

Actually just read that the concept is a creche for allowing mothers to become involved in Momentum. Sort of like Sunday School. It all depends on whether or not the 'Momentum Sunday School' is preaching or if they're just looking after them, IMO. If the latter, then this is actually a good thing for helping mothers to be politically engaged.

[Rayvin 5329]

The Guardian is currently firing out the bitter opinion pieces about Corbyn as we speak, so I'm guessing he's going to win by a landslide. The man outgunned the press, you've got to give it to him there. Outgunned the Labour establishment as well. All despite being unelectable.

 

Seems clear to me that enough people think Labour would be better off as a pressure group than a political party now. And if that doesn't neatly sum up the extent of New Labour's failure, I don't know what does.

 

This opinion piece though:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/20/im-taking-my-vote-elsewhere-if-corbyn-wins

 

Sets out that what was Labour (the majority of voters on the Labour side, it assumes) will just move back to a centre left party and start over. So does any of this even matter? Unless of course Corbyn appeals to more people than everyone thinks he does. Which is the signal I'm picking up on from the general levels of panic we're seeing in the establishment.

[Alex 35653]

The opinion polls don't seem to give him much hope now. Imagine what it'll be like come an election when the tabloids get stuck into him.

[Rayvin 5329]

Well we're through the looking glass now, we're going to have to see where it takes us. Which is exactly what should have happened last time, for better or worse.

 

The tabloids are going to have to be careful though, as the Tories potentially watering down Brexit could leave them between a rock and a hard place with Corbyn. An attack on one will strengthen the other, if Corbyn plays his cards right.

[Alex 35653]

What makes you think he's a clever political strategist who's also happy being in the limelight and (perhaps most importantly) charismatic enough to carry his message forward? It's none of the above for me. And I haven't got anything against him and agree with quite a lot of what he says but it's shades of Michael Foot for me in terms of the result.

[Renton 22025]

Unless of course Corbyn appeals to more people than everyone thinks he does. Which is the signal I'm picking up on from the general levels of panic we're seeing in the establishment.

What does that even mean? Who is the establishment in this context? The only people who need to be afraid of Corbyn are the PLP directly and indirectly millions of normal working people who are faced with the frankly terrifying prospect of an omnipresent right wing Tory government in power. This mass delusion of Corbyn supporters would be funny if it wasn't so important.

 

Farron nailed a lot of this in his speech today. However, he's not convincing me a party with 8 MPs is the answer either.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Renton

[ewerk 31235]

Seems clear to me that enough people think Labour would be better off as a pressure group than a political party now. And if that doesn't neatly sum up the extent of New Labour's failure, I don't know what does.

 

How is this New Labour's fault?

[Renton 22025]

What makes you think he's a clever political strategist who's also happy being in the limelight and (perhaps most importantly) charismatic enough to carry his message forward? It's none of the above for me. And I haven't got anything against him and agree with quite a lot of what he says but it's shades of Michael Foot for me in terms of the result.

Agree but as I've said before that's a bit of an insult to Foot imo. The result of the next election will also be far worse than 83 too imo.

[NJS 4411]

The establishment of Watson, Munich, Benn, Johnson and the Kinnocks.

 

The working classes you mention were betrayed by Blair in pursuit of the centrist voters. Those voters even if they elected Corbyn would demand payback in the form of NL policies which again exclude the working class.

 

Only way forward is alliances of anti-tory parties.

[NJS 4411]

How is this New Labour's fault?

Because they did nowt in 13 years to counteract Thatcherism and allowed the myth of crashing the economy to become enshrined. (Yes I count Milliband as NL).

[Renton 22025]

The establishment of Watson, Munich, Benn, Johnson and the Kinnocks.

 

The working classes you mention were betrayed by Blair in pursuit of the centrist voters. Those voters even if they elected Corbyn would demand payback in the form of NL policies which again exclude the working class.

 

Only way forward is alliances of anti-tory parties.

That has to be the oddest definition of establishment I've ever heard.

 

It's odd you're such a champion of working people NJS when you're employed in the city. I've got too much respect for you to outright call you a hypocrite , but your employment is at massive odds to your politics.

[ewerk 31235]

Because they did nowt in 13 years to counteract Thatcherism and allowed the myth of crashing the economy to become enshrined. (Yes I count Milliband as NL).

But yet did more good and effected more positive change than they did in the previous four parliaments in opposition. Certainly much more than they'll do under Corbyn.

[NJS 4411]

That has to be the oddest definition of establishment I've ever heard.

 

It's odd you're such a champion of working people NJS when you're employed in the city. I've got too much respect for you to outright call you a hypocrite , but your employment is at massive odds to your politics.

He said Labour establishment.

 

I've fully admitted my hypocrisy on that before - I like being reasonably well paid too much and don't think that in itself is against my principles. Working for a bank, albeit one of the less evil ones, is "dodgy" I acknowledge.

 

As I've also said before, my Dad taught me that in your day to day life you look after yourself and your family and when it comes to an election you vote to look after everyone else. I try to include not fucking anyone over in the first aim.