Renton 21231 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I don't know but a) I wouldn't trust her/them and what's the point of a leader or indeed PLP that don't believe in anything vaguely left wing and have to have if "forced" upon them. So like him you're not receptive to compromise then? Owen Smith sounds like quite a good middle candidate to me. Eg anti-austerity yet pro trident. The type of person who may have electable policies. Would you support him? For the record, I think you're entirely wrong. The main issue with Corbyn is the man himself, not his policies, although being a closet Brexiter is hardly tenable. He's unelectable as a person, even if he was pushing more moderate policies. He's the wrong man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 So like him you're not receptive to compromise then? Owen Smith sounds like quite a good middle candidate to me. Eg anti-austerity yet pro trident. The type of person who may have electable policies. Would you support him? For the record, I think you're entirely wrong. The main issue with Corbyn is the man himself, not his policies, although being a closet Brexiter is hardly tenable. He's unelectable as a person, even if he was pushing more moderate policies. He's the wrong man. I know this is directed at NJS, but I would have been receptive to compromise some time back, before this whole thing became ridiculous. I even would have said that the policies are more important than the individual, which I believe to be true. If Angela Eagle had stood up and set out the exact same policies as Corbyn, I likely would have backed her. But after this shit show and the utter contempt with which the PLP are treating the members, I'm now trying really hard to find myself in a position that isn't 'vote for Corbyn out of spite'. I certainly don't think I can trust Labour again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Although you know what, I've just read Owen Smith's speech and he sounds ok. I'll reflect on this more in the build up to the vote. I'd much prefer to vote optimistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 So like him you're not receptive to compromise then? Owen Smith sounds like quite a good middle candidate to me. Eg anti-austerity yet pro trident. The type of person who may have electable policies. Would you support him? For the record, I think you're entirely wrong. The main issue with Corbyn is the man himself, not his policies, although being a closet Brexiter is hardly tenable. He's unelectable as a person, even if he was pushing more moderate policies. He's the wrong man. Of course I believe in compromise. I keep remembering a Q&A with Blair at the 2005 election where a woman dexcribed herself as a left winger/socialist and asked if he had any policy or reason to persuade her to vote for him - his answer was "sorry, but no". My worry is there are too many who wouldn't adopt anything worthwhile - as I keep arguing and especially as May is going to pursue the one nation myth, if you can't differentiate between Tory and Labour then what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17067 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Owen Smith is apparently an ex lobbyist for phizer and is fond of the idea of a private health service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Of course I believe in compromise. I keep remembering a Q&A with Blair at the 2005 election where a woman dexcribed herself as a left winger/socialist and asked if he had any policy or reason to persuade her to vote for him - his answer was "sorry, but no". My worry is there are too many who wouldn't adopt anything worthwhile - as I keep arguing and especially as May is going to pursue the one nation myth, if you can't differentiate between Tory and Labour then what's the point? The former prime minister said that even if he thought a left-wing programme was the route to victory, he would not adopt one. “[Labour] misunderstand the difference between radical leftism, which is often in fact quite reactionary – and radical social democracy, which is all about ensuring that values are put to work in the most effective way,” he said. “Let me make my position clear: I wouldn’t want to win on an old-fashioned leftist platform. Even if I thought it was the route to victory, I wouldn’t take it.” “Even if you did [win] it wouldn’t be right because it wouldn’t take the country forward, it would take it backwards. That’s why it’s not the right thing to do.” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-says-he-wouldn-t-want-a-left-wing-labour-party-to-win-an-election-10406928.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Owen Smith is apparently an ex lobbyist for phizer and is fond of the idea of a private health service Lordy Lordy! Labour haven't reached the bottom yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4679 Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 Good PMQ's. Farewell sweet prince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21801 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 yes, farewell, you ham faced pig molester. thanks for taking us to the precipice then fucking off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44265 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Another hour of head boy, self congratulatory cocknosery from the worst PM this country has ever seen. I hope Sam Cam leaves him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17067 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34786 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Basically failed miserably in all his key objectives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34786 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Good PMQ's. Farewell sweet prince Best in your lifetime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21801 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Brexit and the breakup of the UK will forever be his legacy. All for the sake of his own vanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4679 Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 Best in your lifetime? 166 MP's when he took over, 306 when he left. Conservatives strongly moved to the centre ground of British politics. Over 2.5 million new jobs / record employment Turned Britain from the shambles he inherited to best performing economy in the western world. Gay marriage Reduced the deficit by £80 billion Record spending on the NHS Took millions of low paid out of income tax. Etc etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44265 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 [emoji38] You're a politician's dream. Whatever they say they did, they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17067 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Assuming that's all positive CT, do you, as a reasonably fair minded sort of individual, personally think there's been any negatives?..... Do you have any time for the suggestion that there may have been?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34786 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 It's the old wind-up vs. actually being that stupid quadary again. Tories moved to the centre. What laughable bollocks. Ideological driven austerity that failed. Job creation is one thing but wages fell sharply whilst zero-hours contracts increased. Gay marriage is a good thing but simply a natural progression from civil parnterships. Not to mention the speculation Cameron regretted the move. Also, I think the deficit reduction thing is one of the most pernicious pieces of doublespeak of our age. In actuality the country's debt is much larger than it was when he came to power and it is increasing all the time and the government has pretty had to admit that there's no sign of the much vaunted surplus of payments any time soon (not in this Parliament anyway). So that's actually you listing an absolute abject failure as one of his key successes. :lol: The NHS is in a far worse state than when he inherited it. I don't think anyone who works in it would disagree. And as for the last one, the last budget made (I may have my figures slightly out) families earning less than £18K a year about two grand worse off. Etc., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34786 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Assuming that's all positive CT, do you, as a reasonably fair minded sort of individual, personally think there's been any negatives?..... Do you have any time for the suggestion that there may have been?.... I think just about every single political commentator has pointed to his many failures and his modest (in the most sympathetic cases) successes. Being the keen political observer that he is, CT will no doubt concede he's in a minority of one in arguing he's been a great PM. It's almost like he sets out to be contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4679 Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 Assuming that's all positive CT, do you, as a reasonably fair minded sort of individual, personally think there's been any negatives?..... Do you have any time for the suggestion that there may have been?.... Of course there's been negatives, but a lot of that in politics is due to the hand you are dealt. Tony Blair inherited a growing economy at a time when the world was doing ok. (Put aside discussions on bubbles etc), Cameron inherited an economy following the crash. Every PM that's ever been would have preferred Blairs circumstances than Cameron's. He was a very modernising leader that changed the party from the "nasty" party, made it electable again and doubled the number of MP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34786 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Team positive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4679 Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 Team May. Zooooooom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44265 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Do you know Theresa May? No, but thanks for the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44265 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 George Osborne sacked as Chancellor and headed for the backbenches. That's weird for a bloke that's delivered "the best performing economy in the western world." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Judging by this weeks news, a seat on the board of HSBC beckons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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