Politics

[Howmanheyman 33846]

For once we are in agreement.

 

Appalling night for Labour. 3rd party now in Scotland and the first opposition in 30 years to have a net loss of council seats. (Some still to count).

 

There would be a coup tomorrow if it wasn't for the left wing infiltration of the Labour Party.

I see Labour gained Boldon and Cleadon. Couldn't have done it without your taxi-talk.

[Gemmill 46032]

If it's utter delusion to say Corbyn has a groundswell of support, it must be even more so to call this government "the most reviled administration in living history."

 

They're halfway through a second term in which they gained a majority and are seemingly getting more popular.

[Rayvin 5297]

@@Dickie

"I just hope that the unprecedented groundswell of support that Corbyn received at the end of last year continues and continues".

 

This is utter delusion. I'm speechless. Forgetting the politics do a minute, as ewerk says, what has Corbyn done. He's done fuck all to damage probably the most reviled administration in living history. To quote a former poster, he's a shambles of a man. Nice bloke maybe (don't know personally) but hopelessly out of his depth. It would take a very strong character to get people to buy his idealist philosophy, he's nowhere near up to it.

I've been pretty impressed by what he's said and how he's put it across when I've listened to him directly. Been less impressed with what he's said when hearing it second hand through the media though.

[Christmas Tree 4827]

All you need to know about Corbyns leadership qualities is Dianne Abbott.

 

What a woman.

[Gemmill 46032]

All you need to know about Corbyns leadership qualities is Dianne Abbott.

 

What a woman.

Racist.

[Dickie 0]

@@Dickie

"I just hope that the unprecedented groundswell of support that Corbyn received at the end of last year continues and continues".

 

This is utter delusion. I'm speechless. Forgetting the politics do a minute, as ewerk says, what has Corbyn done. He's done fuck all to damage probably the most reviled administration in living history. To quote a former poster, he's a shambles of a man. Nice bloke maybe (don't know personally) but hopelessly out of his depth. It would take a very strong character to get people to buy his idealist philosophy, he's nowhere near up to it.

 

I think saying it's delusion is a bit strong. He was elected labour leader with what can reasonably be described as a groundswell of support. And it was certainly unprecedented. I also think it's a bit misguided to say this government is the most reviled in history. People like you and me revile them, yes. But they won the last election comfortably. They had the support of influential media (including arguably the BBC). Corbyn has had next to no support from the media but his poularity his increasing, as is Labour party membership. A large portion of the population of this country doesn't see the damage that Cameron et al are doing, and I believe that Corbyn's Labour are slowly raising awareness that things can and should be done differently. As I said, it remains to be seen whether he is electable. Personally I feel a lot better having someone who is continuously talking about compassion and solidarity (and clearly means it) than having another Blairite who will keep the country on pretty much the same reprehensible path it's been on my whole life. I appreciate that others may feel differently.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Dickie

[Renton 22002]

If it's utter delusion to say Corbyn has a groundswell of support, it must be even more so to call this government "the most reviled administration in living history."

 

They're halfway through a second term in which they gained a majority and are seemingly getting more popular.

They're 1 year into a second term. Reviled by the majority outside the shires I'd say, but let's be kind and call them divisive, even in their own party. They are not strong opposition. Growing in popularity? Why would that be?

 

Also forget about the media in this, Couldn't failure is of his own making.

[Christmas Tree 4827]

Anyone know if Alex kept his seat?

[Happy Face 29]

[Renton 22002]

Since we know Cameron is retiring before 2020, perhaps Corbyn should do the same thing.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Renton

[NJS 4411]

I'd appreciate your argument more Renton if you could suggest someone of any wing who would do much better. Sadly I don't see anyone right now.

[Happy Face 29]

Since we know Cameron is retiring before 2020, perhaps Corbyn should do the same thing.

 

With his numbers steadily improving for six months?

[Renton 22002]

Alan Johnson?

 

I can't see anyone doing worse tbh other than perhaps Livingstone or Abbot. I accept that there is a dearth of quality in the upper echelons of the party at the moment, but what is needed desperately at the moment is a unifier, and yes, they have to be more centrist, not some random backbench rebel who hasn't got a clue how to run a major political party. Somebody to steady the ship basically otherwise Labour are heading for oblivion.

[Renton 22002]

 

With his numbers steadily improving for six months?

Is that what you take from that graph? Don't you think any improvement he's had is attributable to Cameron's own falling ratings since the referendum kicked off? Are you going to extrapolate that graph to 2020 and tell me he's going to have 130% approval?

 

Given where we are at his ratings are dire. His supporters are simply deluded.

[Gemmill 46032]

Who on here is the most to blame, Rentolius?

[Happy Face 29]

Is that what you take from that graph? Don't you think any improvement he's had is attributable to Cameron's own falling ratings since the referendum kicked off? Are you going to extrapolate that graph to 2020 and tell me he's going to have 130% approval?

 

Given where we are at his ratings are dire. His supporters are simply deluded.

 

No I don't think people give Corbyn approval just because of Cameron's failures. Your view is evidence that people can still think Corbyn is doing a shit job at taking advantage of the Tory implosion. But that's not generally the case, Corbyn's got the best numbers of a labour leader in 3 and a half years in terms of people who think he's doing a good job.

 

Dissatisfaction is also 43% and dropping. It's 5 years since fewer than 43% were dissatisfied with Miliband, and he only had numbers that good in his first 7 months.

 

Not sure that any Labour leader would be taking an opposing view to Cameron on EU right now, just for the sake of giving him a short term political headache.

[Renton 22002]

 

No I don't think people give Corbyn approval just because of Cameron's failures. Your view is evidence that people can still think Corbyn is doing a shit job at taking advantage of the Tory implosion. But that's not generally the case, Corbyn's got the best numbers of a labour leader in 3 and a half years in terms of people who think he's doing a good job.

 

Dissatisfaction is also 43% and dropping. It's 5 years since fewer than 43% were dissatisfied with Miliband, and he only had numbers that good in his first 7 months.

 

Not sure that any Labour leader would be taking an opposing view to Cameron on EU right now, just for the sake of giving him a short term political headache.

It's not just the EU though. The cuts, the nhs, Cameron's own dodgy tax dealing, the school academies (u turned today), the Syrian orphans (u turned 2 days ago). Fuck me, you really think he is doing a good job that is hard to better. Completely deluded imo.

[Dr Gloom 22151]

I'd appreciate your argument more Renton if you could suggest someone of any wing who would do much better. Sadly I don't see anyone right now.

 

david miliband could unite the party and he has the charisma his brother lacked to appeal to middle england.

 

shame they backed the wrong brother.

[Renton 22002]

Forgive my London ignorance, is Bexley and Bromley a staunchly tory area?

[Dickie 0]

I understand and accept that somebody else, i.e. a younger, slicker and, yes, cleverer politician could probably do a better job at capitalising on the present disarray of the Tory party, and would stand a very good chance of winning in 2020 if they can unify the party and merely avoid doing/saying anything catastrophic between now and then. I also understand that such a candidate would necessarily have to be a centrist and would almost certainly be a better option for Britain and British people than Cameron et al. A Labour government, by definition, will always be better for the welfare of British people than a Tory government, I understand that.

 

However in my opinion another centrist would just be continuing to lead the country down the same road it's been heading down for my whole life, albeit at a slower rate than what Cameron and Osbourne have got planned, but it's still the same direction, and I don't think that's what it needs. It needs someone at the top whose primary focus is welfare, equality and fairness rather than banking, finance, big business and selfishness. I don't think it is deluded to think that Corbyn ticks those boxes Renton. I accept that my criteria for a leader may be seen by some as naive, but to call me deluded just because the current Labour party leader meets those criteria seems to me to be unfair. As I said before, I don't know if he is unelectable - it remains to be seen. I am not saying he is going to win in 2020. But I think he is doing an important thing by standing for what he (and evidently a lot of other British people, based on Labour party membership and other measures of esteem) believes in and trying his best to refocus the debate on what the British government should be doing for the benefit of its people. For the record I am 34 and have voted Labour in every election that I've been old enough to vote in, i.e. long before Corbyn was thrust into the limelight.

[Dr Gloom 22151]

it's idealism vs pragmatism though, isn't it? you need the latter if you're ever going to govern. unfortunately, and for all i agree with corbyn on several issues, he's about as electable as IDS was when he was tory leader.

[Dickie 0]

Aye it is, and I understand that. However I am saying that the country (and others) needs more than another Blair winning from the centre. More and more people are getting left behind, the underclass of bamps is getting bigger and bigger, people are becoming more and more selfish and horrible to eachother. If having Corbyn in there helps to refocus the Labour party, and even UK politics, and helps raise awareness amongst the masses that there's got to be a better way of doing things than just continuing down this Thatcher-Blair-Cameron trajectory it's got to be a good thing. That's the way I see it anyway.

[Dr Gloom 22151]

that's the best-case scenario, the other likely scenario is a swift retreat to the middle after corbyn fucks up another election.

[Dickie 0]

Aye fair point - just have to hope that in 4 years time they've learnt what they need to do to win. I just hope that before long the penny drops amongst the dissenters within the parliamentary party that he's not going to stand down and they get onside and start pulling in the same direction

[Happy Face 29]

It's not just the EU though. The cuts, the nhs, Cameron's own dodgy tax dealing, the school academies (u turned today), the Syrian orphans (u turned 2 days ago). Fuck me, you really think he is doing a good job that is hard to better. Completely deluded imo.

Corbyn gets no credit for being consistently and quickly oh the right side of those issues? Or for any contribution to those u-turns (though obviously Tory rebels have had the biggest sway there). He only gets abuse for not gloating and using the issues to play politics after the event?

 

It might harm him that he won't play that game, but if anyone is truly concerned about those issues then corbyn has been consistently on the right side of the debate as his opponent flip flops.

 

Same with the uturn on disability benefits too.

 

Isn't criticising him for these things only evidence of an agenda rather than of any failure of leadership?