Politics

[Renton 22003]

Well there are no Blairite potential leaders either so in the absence of that, why not come out with policies based on principles rather than the bland failed ideas of the last two elections?

I've two issues with this. First, I just don't agree with some of Corbyn's policies, and they're not saleable to the general public. But secondly, to have a chance of being elected on such policies, you need an incredibly charismatic strong, intelligent leader to pull it off. Pretty much the opposite of Corbyn.

[Rayvin 5299]

Dunno mate, I do see your wider point here, I just don't share your view of the man. I've listened to what he's saying and looked at what he's doing, and am quite happy with it. In truth though, if I was only looking at how the papers are reporting him, I'd probably be right off the guy.

[Rayvin 5299]

As for whether or not he'll be elected, it doesn't make much difference when the alternative has been pulled so far to the right that it's now centre rather than centre left.

[Renton 22003]

Dunno mate, I do see your wider point here, I just don't share your view of the man. I've listened to what he's saying and looked at what he's doing, and am quite happy with it. In truth though, if I was only looking at how the papers are reporting him, I'd probably be right off the guy.

I honestly think he's had an easy ride in the written press considering his lack of credentials and overwhelming sense of mediocrity. He's rightly ignored as an irrelevance.

 

No-one reads papers nowadays anyway, stop blaming everybody else.

[Renton 22003]

As for whether or not he'll be elected, it doesn't make much difference when the alternative has been pulled so far to the right that it's now centre rather than centre left.

This is what I massively disagree with. How old were you in 1997 out of interest?

[PaddockLad 17661]

You keep claiming things would/would've been better with a more mainstream leader Rents...how would it have been different to Milliband if Burnham had got in?..

Edited May 1, 2016 by PaddockLad

[Renton 22003]

You keep claiming things would/would've been better with a more mainstream leader Rents...how would it have been different to Milliband if Burnham had got in?..

Burnham would have stood a good chance of being pm in 2020. The Tories are in complete disarray at the moment in case you hadn't noticed, Miliband would beat them in an election today. Corbyn wouldn't.

 

This is the bit where you claim Burnham is as bad as Cameron. I wholly disagree.

[adios 717]

I think it's Labour that wants its party back tbh.

[Renton 22003]

I think it's Labour that wants its party back tbh.

 

Yeah, well, in a way you're right, and they have got it back. But time has moved on, like it or not Blair realised to get elected the party had to swing to the pragmatic right. A senior member of the party once told me there is no power or purpose in opposition. She was right. We lost the election a couple of years later under Brown. We've been impotent ever since.

[adios 717]

I think there's an adjustment to the left coming, and Corbyn has a real shot in 2020.

 

Look how well Sanders is doing even in the States.

[NJS 4411]

Yeah, well, in a way you're right, and they have got it back. But time has moved on, like it or not Blair realised to get elected the party had to swing to the pragmatic right. A senior member of the party once told me there is no power or purpose in opposition. She was right. We lost the election a couple of years later under Brown. We've been impotent ever since.

The tories looked a million miles from power in 2001 and 2005 but they came back with a non-entity of a leader because of dissatisfaction with a government so it's not a totally lost cause.

 

I still think apart from investment in the NHS and education (too much of it via PFI) there's nothing to be proud of in what Blair achieved and the austerity lite on offer by milliband and the other leadership candidates wouldn't have been that different. When you had the shadow social security minister talking about being tougher on welfare than the tories it should hint at what was planned.

 

Power without principle is the other side of the coin you allude to and if Corbyn and Sanders can inspire youngsters like Rayvin on both sides of the Atlantic the future could be brighter. Maybe not in 5 years but certainly long term.

[Kid Dynamite 7174]

Am just trying to get a bit of a debate going

 

 

'And Corbyn turns out to be a pathetic limp dick incapable of making any dent on these fuckers....

 

Tell you what you pathetic Corbynobites, just fuck off and form your own shit idealist socialist party and leave the rest of us to scrabble together to try and find some good out of the shit you've excremated on us.

 

Do I need to name names here? Ok, off the top of my head people like J69, Gemmill, paddock lad, and hmhm are guilty especially the former two.'

 

 

Aye right

[Renton 22003]

'And Corbyn turns out to be a pathetic limp dick incapable of making any dent on these fuckers....

 

Tell you what you pathetic Corbynobites, just fuck off and form your own shit idealist socialist party and leave the rest of us to scrabble together to try and find some good out of the shit you've excremated on us.

 

Do I need to name names here? Ok, off the top of my head people like J69, Gemmill, paddock lad, and hmhm are guilty especially the former two.'

 

 

Aye right

I admitted I was pissed when I made that post, having been out for my quarterly piss up after the match yesterday. Guess what? It sparked some debate. What's your issue?

[ewerk 31209]

I think there's an adjustment to the left coming, and Corbyn has a real shot in 2020.

 

Look how well Sanders is doing even in the States.

I really can't agree with this at all. We've seen the left attracting more of the youth and becoming a lot more vocal but it isn't enough to win a general election. Sanders couldn't even come close to winning the Democratic nomination never mind become President so I think that using him or Corbyn to demonstrate a rise of the left is reaching somewhat.

[adios 717]

Sanders is very close to Clinton without Super Delegates.

 

And Sanders beats Trump nearly every time according to the polls.

 

I have money on Clinton, and she's going to win it, but I'd happily lose that money to be wrong.

 

He's cut it very close in a very right wing country as a Socialist Jew, is the point I'm making about the shift.

 

The right are in absolute disarray as seen by the rise of Trump.

[adios 717]

I know it's often incorrectly talked about that the younger voters coming through will swing things to the left, but I think it might actually be true this time with less of the middle class leaning more to the right as they age.

[Renton 22003]

I really can't agree with this at all. We've seen the left attracting more of the youth and becoming a lot more vocal but it isn't enough to win a general election. Sanders couldn't even come close to winning the Democratic nomination never mind become President so I think that using him or Corbyn to demonstrate a rise of the left is reaching somewhat.

Completely agree. It might make young 20 somethings feel better about their lot by voting for, what is nowadays, a far left candidate but it means fuck all if older voters like myself won't vote because we left the naivety of sixth form politics a while back.

 

In my 20s I actively got behind new labour and despite what most people on here think, particularly NJS, think it changed this country for the good. But there's simply no appetite for old fashioned socialism any more that Corbyn represents.

 

Plus, without a shadow of a doubt, most kids nowadays are completely apathetic, many can't even be arsed to get off their iPhone and vote at all. But voting for Corbyn isn't going to change anything, he will never be elected. But how many students nowadays are willing to get a truncheon over their head over the massive injustice they're facing? Almost none apparently. I still vividly remember 88. We ultimately took down Thatcher.

[Renton 22003]

 

The right are in absolute disarray as seen by the rise of Trump.

Ironically as are the left here because of Corbyn.

[adios 717]

Naive 6th form politics. You seem very angry, Renty baby.

[Renton 22003]

Naive 6th form politics. You seem very angry, Renty baby.

It's virtually a fact you can't be elected with a manifesto of unilateral disarmament. This is just an example. Corbyn is old but naive. He's a back bencher.

[ewerk 31209]

Sanders is very close to Clinton without Super Delegates.

.

She has a fifteen point lead over him in the popular vote and I can see that increasing before the primaries are finished. Even without super delegates the result was never in doubt and I think that actually contributes to the 'protest' vote. Edited May 1, 2016 by ewerk

[adios 717]

She has a fifteen point lead over him in the popular vote and I can see that increasing before the primaries are finished. Even without super delegates the result was never in doubt and I think that actually contributes to the 'protest' vote.

And you don't think that's close given his positions? She'd lose if it weren't for the South. THE SOUTH!

[Renton 22003]

I doubt that's true.

[ewerk 31209]

And you don't think that's close given his positions? She'd lose if it weren't for the South. THE SOUTH!

 

He obviously has a strong base but he's benefiting from every 'anyone but Hilary' vote. In a two horse race I'd say she has an impressive lead.

[Rayvin 5299]

This is what I massively disagree with. How old were you in 1997 out of interest?

I was 12. I guess your implication is that I didn't see where Labour placed itself prior to 1997? A fair enough argument but I witnessed in my adult life the shift to the right. Backing austerity despite solid economic arguments not to was what made me believe ideology and winning elections was more important than doing what was best for people. At least in the eyes of old new Labour.