Politics

[PaddockLad 17660]

The SNP is not anti english.

 

Am pretty sure Salmon and Sturgeon aren't but I think a lot of their voters are. Same as farage isn't openly prejudiced against foreigners in general but I think it's pretty certain a lot of his vote is. Manipulation of the weak.

[Dr Gloom 22155]

i'd love to see miliband win it, just to prove to murdoch that his media empire no longer controls british politics.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3974]

 

Am pretty sure Salmon and Sturgeon aren't but I think a lot of their voters are. Same as farage isn't openly prejudiced against foreigners in general but I think it's pretty certain a lot of his vote is. Manipulation of the weak.

 

Well I am English and a lot of the members in our constituency wanted me to stand for the Holyrood elections.

[Alex 35588]

The irony of the inevitable complaints from the Tories if they don't end up in charge if they get more of the popular vote (and quite possibly, although not necessarily, more seats) will be fucking mint.

[Gemmill 46034]

The irony of the inevitable complaints from the Tories if they don't end up in charge if they get more of the popular vote (and quite possibly, although not necessarily, more seats) will be fucking mint.

 

It's started already. Cameron has been on this morning talking about how a Labour government would have a "massive credibility problem" if they tried to govern without having won the most seats. The additional 4 seats that the Tories are projected to win presumably makes them perfectly credible.

 

Dave getting his excuses in early by the looks of it.

[NJS 4411]

Someone should mention 1951 when labour actually got a higher percentage of the total vote but the Tories still won the most seats - "credible" under a shit system.

[Christmas Tree 4831]

The biggest fall out will be Scotland sending 50 odd MP's who are completely ignored by Milliband. No surer way to guarantee a new referendum which would be won.

[Alex 35588]

CT following in his hero's footsteps and conceding defeat days ahead of polling.

[NJS 4411]

I know milliband is posturing in the attempt to save votes but I don't get his anti-snp stance. In other countries you have a clear-ish spectrum of parties with a good idea who'll work with who to form broad left/right alliances. I don't see anything that wrong with that as it allows voters movement within a broader range and as a result if you knew who are anti-tory" or indeed "anti-lefty" you can make that choice if necessary. This is why I don't like clegg as I've always thought of liberals as slightly misguided but overall decent people - Steel and Kennedy being good examples of that - but stating he's open to working with the cunts (again) illustrates clegg fails that decency test IMO.

[PaddockLad 17660]

 

Well I am English and a lot of the members in our constituency wanted me to stand for the Holyrood elections.

 

Im english too and the same arseholes up there who have always ripped me for being English think the SNP are an absolute fuckin whizz. Theyd never voted in any election before last year's referendum but are now apparently commited nationalists. All Eck had to do was scratch the bitter scab of ridiculous anti English sentiment that a lot of Scots have. I'd watch what your mates in the party are saying behind your back if I were you

[Christmas Tree 4831]

but stating he's open to working with the cunts (again) illustrates clegg fails that decency test IMO.

Maybe he gets a buzz out of creating 2 million extra jobs, cutting income tax for 27 million people, taking a million out of paying tax all together, freezing council tax, biggest increase in the state pension since 1948, cutting fuel duty, putting a permanent levy on the banks, more doctors, more nurses, building more council houses in 5 years than labour did in 13 years......

[Gemmill 46034]

5,000 fewer nurses since 2010. What else in the above did you make up?

[ewerk 31209]

Maybe he gets a buzz out of creating 2 million extra jobs, cutting income tax for 27 million people, taking a million out of paying tax all together, freezing council tax, biggest increase in the state pension since 1948, cutting fuel duty, putting a permanent levy on the banks, more doctors, more nurses, building more council houses in 5 years than labour did in 13 years......

 

[Dr Gloom 22155]

Maybe he gets a buzz out of creating 2 million extra jobs, cutting income tax for 27 million people, taking a million out of paying tax all together, freezing council tax, biggest increase in the state pension since 1948, cutting fuel duty, putting a permanent levy on the banks, more doctors, more nurses, building more council houses in 5 years than labour did in 13 years......

 

borrowed more in 3 years than labour managed in 13

[Dr Gloom 22155]

deficit still at £80bn, despite the pledge to pay it down by end of parliament. shows how successful the savage austerity which led to widespread use of foodbanks and growing social inequality has been.

[Alex 35588]

Maybe he gets a buzz out of creating 2 million extra jobs, cutting income tax for 27 million people, taking a million out of paying tax all together, freezing council tax, biggest increase in the state pension since 1948, cutting fuel duty, putting a permanent levy on the banks, more doctors, more nurses, building more council houses in 5 years than labour did in 13 years......

A Lib Dem policy the chancellor claimed wouldn't work.

[JJ 0]

 

Labour have only won in the UK though when it has moved to the centre and won lots of seats in the south of England. I thought I read during the referendum that Labour would still have been returned three times under Blair even if theyd won no seats in Scotland? And if you think my elderly parents who live near Kelso would vote for anyone other than Labour, least of all the fuckin tories, then youve another think coming

 

Labour dont get any real following in the area because the people are pretty conservatve with a small "c" by nature, lots of farmers etc, up to their gills in EU subsidies etc. Even then they've returned a Liberal/Lib Dem since David Steel was elected in the 60s, local boy etc. Next door in Dumfries & Tweedale theyve got Scotlands only tory, and always have had one as far I can remember, its a pretty different area from the rest of Scotland.

 

Overall though whilst I agree with a lot of the SNP policies I find the notion of the break up of the UK pretty unpalatable. I think, for all their "anti Westminster" retoric, the SNP leadership are just the other side of the coin to Nigel Farage, just manipulating people's base prejudices. in this case the anti English scab that lurks within a lot of Scots, waiting to be scratched. Why should Scotland have the ability to remove themsleves from the rest of Labour voting UK?...why create a very hard border when across the planet the world seems to be on the move with barriers basically stormed by huge waves of immigration? I understand that an independant Scotand will welcome immigrants but it seems a pretty strange way to go about it i.e. alienating people on the same Islands who they have a huge amount more in common with e.g. the industrial cities of the north of Ehgland, south Wales etc..

Tactical voting is already happening in Scotland between Labour and the Tories. I guarantee you. Yes the majority will have principle, but there's still a fringe who are voting where the opposition is strongest to stop the SNP. I'm sure your folks are being hardcore about it (and good, I'd rather people voted for what they believed in) but trust me when I tell you there are Labour people tactically voting Tory (and vice versa) in Scotland.

 

The Tories only real shot at relevance in Scotland is in Dumfries and Galloway and the Borders, and I'm standing against the only Tory in Scotland. David Steel was the MP for my area before Michael Moore was, and then the boundaries were re-drawn and we were thrown in with a constituency that returned the only Tory in Scotland. DCT has always had a Tory (since the new constituency was set up in 2005) but remember Scotland was a Tory free zone after the 1997 and 2001 election.

 

I obviously support Scottish independence as you can tell from the fact I've been too lazy to change my avatar for months, and I think the SNP are kind of rabble rousers, but there's not an anti-English sentiment in the SNP apart from a small minority which you can never legislate for. SNP are far more anti-Westminster than anti-England. You could argue in that sense they are anti-English because of the way England votes, but in truth, it doesn't really matter that much to most people if England votes Tory or Labour. As Sturgeon said in one of the debates to Ed Miliband, they don't say Labour aren't different to the Tories. They say that Labour aren't different enough, which I think is fair. I think Ed Miliband himself is different, but when we end up in Scotland with a Labour leadership of Jim Murphy, which his special advisor John McTernan, how different are they really in that sense? Labour still has that stench of the Blairites that is hard to shift.

 

And your last point about Scotland taking itself out from the rest of the Labour voting UK. The best reason to vote Labour is because they aren't the Tories. That's not good enough anymore. Many people in Scotland now see a more viable alternative (and I wish people were voting Green instead of SNP, but alas) and until England has either a much stronger Green Party or a proper left alternative, the Labour Party will always pick up de facto anti-Tory votes. It's just the nature of it. Until we move to a more proportional voting system, people aren't going to be properly represented, and I'd argue a more proportional voting system would demand Labour become more bold as they can't rely on the anti-Tory vote as much.

[Alex 35588]

deficit still at £80bn, despite the pledge to pay it down by end of parliament. shows how successful the savage austerity which led to widespread use of foodbanks and growing social inequality has been.

The national debt has grown massively. They've borrowed more in the first 3 years of this parliament than Labour did in 13. It bothers me that the language used isn't challenged more when politicians make statements about the deficit being down. Talk of the deficit being down doesn't mean national debt has decreased but it just means it's down on the previous year but I think many people don't realise this. Not including you in that btw. Think it's a sad indictment on the Labour leadership that they haven't been at greater pains to point this out.

[Gemmill 46034]

There's analysis on the Newsnight blog suggesting that with an AV system, the Tories would end up with 30 extra seats and Dave wouldn't have to be moving house any time soon. Shame they campaigned successfully against it eh.

[JJ 0]

The national debt has grown massively. They've borrowed more in the first 3 years of this parliament than Labour did in 13. It bothers me that the language used isn't challenged more when politicians make statements about the deficit being down. Talk of the deficit being down doesn't mean national debt has decreased but it just means it's down on the previous year but I think many people don't realise this. Not including you in that btw. Think it's a sad indictment on the Labour leadership that they haven't been at greater pains to point this out.

Especially when the argument is "judge us by our record."

 

Then surely we can judge that the deficit elimination plan will fail?

[Dr Gloom 22155]

The national debt has grown massively. They've borrowed more in the first 3 years of this parliament than Labour did in 13. It bothers me that the language used isn't challenged more when politicians make statements about the deficit being down. Talk of the deficit being down doesn't mean national debt has decreased but it just means it's down on the previous year but I think many people don't realise this. Not including you in that btw. Think it's a sad indictment on the Labour leadership that they haven't been at greater pains to point this out.

 

exactly, and the deficit will remain high as long as tax receipts are so low.

 

the great irony is it's never been cheaper to borrow. the recovery would have been a much more sustainable one if they'd gone for some fiscal stimulus instead of blanket austerity.

 

most normal people will never feel the benefits of a recovery as long as productivity is so low. if your average joe isn't feeling the recovery, are they likely to buy the whole tory argument about the long-term economic plan working?

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3974]

http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2015/05/02/britain-for-the-love-of-god-please-stop-david-cameron/

[Dr Gloom 22155]

old but topical

 

[Holden McGroin 6785]

I was just about to post that KCG.

[Dr Gloom 22155]

and another one