Renton 18929 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 4 minutes ago, wykikitoon said: This is one for the Politic guru's. Last night I was coming home listening to a podcast and they briefly touched on the GE. They said that in '97 it was a clear choice between the Tories and Labour. But now because the country is so fucked, you're basically getting a Labour government with a leader that has his Tory manifesto written on Labour letter headed notepaper. Is that what we are getting really? Or is it just people hearing from others and they're putting 2+2 together and getting 5? It's utter bullshit mate, you must know that. The Labour manifesto will be one of stabilisation rather than anything exciting whereas the current tory manifesto is incoherent but will again shift wealth upwards. So listening to R5 here. They are interviewing two 18 year old kids who are voting for the first time from Warrington. Somehow, despite the overwhelming evidence from polling, they have managed to find a little tory boy and the other is "undecided". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 32031 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 Just now, wykikitoon said: This is one for the Politic guru's. Last night I was coming home listening to a podcast and they briefly touched on the GE. They said that in '97 it was a clear choice between the Tories and Labour. But now because the country is so fucked, you're basically getting a Labour government with a leader that has his Tory manifesto written on Labour letter headed notepaper. Is that what we are getting really? Or is it just people hearing from others and they're putting 2+2 together and getting 5? The manifesto isn’t published until tomorrow so it’s speculation. Which podcast was it btw? If you’re really interested in some decent analysis the Institute for Government will go through it bit by bit and tell you how they feel it equates to taxation, any increases in investment / public spending etc. They did a 45 min live stream on the Tory one yesterday, followed by that article I posted earlier in the chat. In the early days at least, Labour may be quite hamstrung by the state of the finances. But to say that’s exactly the same as the Tories, and the electorate don’t have a clear choice in philosophy here is CorByN wON thE arGUmenT levels of assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 37874 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 The Tories put their manifesto out yesterday. They're cutting welfare, forcing sick and disabled people back to work*, and they're gonna use the money they save to give other, better off people tax cuts. If Labour puts the same manifesto out tomorrow, then the idiots on that podcast will be right. *I watched Gillian Keegan earlier saying that in particular they feel they can target people that aren't working because of mental health problems. So that's nice. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 32031 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 1 minute ago, Renton said: It's utter bullshit mate, you must know that. The Labour manifesto will be one of stabilisation rather than anything exciting whereas the current tory manifesto is incoherent but will again shift wealth upwards. So listening to R5 here. They are interviewing two 18 year old kids who are voting for the first time from Warrington. Somehow, despite the overwhelming evidence from polling, they have managed to find a little tory boy and the other is "undecided". ‘Balance’ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 15368 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 After the recession of the early 90s (“it is said”) that the country by 1997 was in recovery. At some point in the first few months of the new Labour government Blair made a speech where he said he was sticking to the economic plan as set out by the recently departed Tory government. They also removed responsibility for the interest rate away from the government and put it onto the BoE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 17866 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 It was a comedy podcast of a couple. Brew with the Bennetts. I think it was that one anyway I just think it's lazy people or people with no interest in the shit show of the Tories that they have smeared everyone with the same brush. I was speaking to a mate who is a massive Corbyn fan and he hates Starmer and said he's the biggest cunt in the country right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 37874 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 In case you think I'm being hyperbolic about their manifesto, this "yep" should help. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 27661 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Alex said: Labour may be quite hamstrung by the state of the finances. Are they though? The No.1 message that Labour have been trying to get across over the last two years is that they can be trusted with the economy and there would be no new borrowing, which evidently appeals to most voters. But iirc we have the second lowest level of government debt among the G7. We seem to be convincing ourselves that our national finances should be run like a household which isn’t the case. The markets shit themselves when Truss announced her plans not simply because she wanted to borrow money but because she wanted the money to fund tax cuts. If a coherent plan was put forward to borrow money to invest in the country and our infrastructure which in turn would boost the economy then the markets wouldn’t be so spooked and peoples lives might improve. Instead what we have is the next government saying, ‘things are shit right now, we’ll try to make them slightly less shit’. Edited June 12 by ewerk 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 32031 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 5 minutes ago, Gemmill said: In case you think I'm being hyperbolic about their manifesto, this "yep" should help. The IfG directly compared the manifesto to the Truss pledges as per the interviewer there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 32031 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 4 minutes ago, ewerk said: Are they though? The No.1 message that Labour have been trying to get across over the last two years is that they can be trusted with the economy and there would be no new borrowing, which evidently appeals to most voters. But iirc we have the second lowest level of government debt among the G7. We seem to be convincing ourselves that our national finances should be run like a household which isn’t the case. The markets shit themselves when Truss announced her plans not simply because she wanted to borrow money but because she wanted the money to fund tax cuts. If a coherent plan was put forward to borrow money to invest in the country and our infrastructure which in turn would boost the economy then the markets wouldn’t be so spooked and peoples lives might improve. Instead what we have is the next government saying, ‘things are shit right now, we’ll try to make them slightly less shit’. Yeah, that’s a good point. I suppose it helps Labour as a narrative as there is clearly a lot to put right which won’t be easy to fix straight away 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 32031 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 13 minutes ago, wykikitoon said: It was a comedy podcast of a couple. Brew with the Bennetts. I think it was that one anyway I just think it's lazy people or people with no interest in the shit show of the Tories that they have smeared everyone with the same brush. I was speaking to a mate who is a massive Corbyn fan and he hates Starmer and said he's the biggest cunt in the country right now You want to stick to Talksport 👍🏻 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 17866 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 8 minutes ago, ewerk said: Are they though? The No.1 message that Labour have been trying to get across over the last two years is that they can be trusted with the economy and there would be no new borrowing, which evidently appeals to most voters. But iirc we have the second lowest level of government debt among the G7. We seem to be convincing ourselves that our national finances should be run like a household which isn’t the case. The markets shit themselves when Truss announced her plans not simply because she wanted to borrow money but because she wanted the money to fund tax cuts. If a coherent plan was put forward to borrow money to invest in the country and our infrastructure which in turn would boost the economy then the markets wouldn’t be so spooked and peoples lives might improve. Instead what we have is the next government saying, ‘things are shit right now, we’ll try to make them slightly less shit’. You should go into accountancy with that level of brains. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 32031 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 17 minutes ago, wykikitoon said: It was a comedy podcast of a couple. Brew with the Bennetts. I think it was that one anyway I just think it's lazy people or people with no interest in the shit show of the Tories that they have smeared everyone with the same brush. I was speaking to a mate who is a massive Corbyn fan and he hates Starmer and said he's the biggest cunt in the country right now Tbh I think anyone who is still a big Corbyn fan is an unmitigated fucking moron. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 29097 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 27 minutes ago, Renton said: So listening to R5 here. They are interviewing two 18 year old kids who are voting for the first time from Warrington. Somehow, despite the overwhelming evidence from polling, they have managed to find a little tory boy and the other is "undecided". ".....ooh what a typical, typical BBC vox pop.....aaand in a 'northern' town." 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 27661 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 2 hours ago, Gemmill said: It's a sign of what a great country we live in that a little Winchester College boy who "famously" doesn't even have Sky TV can one day grow up to be Prime Minister. What a rags to riches story. Complete lies. With those ears the cunt can communicate with the Hubble telescope, never mind receive Sky TV. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 6809 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 2 hours ago, Gemmill said: It's a sign of what a great country we live in that a little Winchester College boy who "famously" doesn't even have Sky TV can one day grow up to be Prime Minister. What a rags to riches story. The thing is, if he had even the slightest hint of charm or charisma he could have spun this into a witty bit, and pointed out that even though he's privileged he has seen and understood the problems of the working people etc through his roles in politics. It would be enough to win over some idiots and improve his profile a bit. But he's a complete robot and every time he opens his gob, he just makes things worse. The best thing the tories could do would be to keep the spanner as far away from microphones and cameras as possible 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 27661 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 37874 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 Just now, ewerk said: Aye I thought this was quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18929 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 49 minutes ago, ewerk said: Are they though? The No.1 message that Labour have been trying to get across over the last two years is that they can be trusted with the economy and there would be no new borrowing, which evidently appeals to most voters. But iirc we have the second lowest level of government debt among the G7. We seem to be convincing ourselves that our national finances should be run like a household which isn’t the case. The markets shit themselves when Truss announced her plans not simply because she wanted to borrow money but because she wanted the money to fund tax cuts. If a coherent plan was put forward to borrow money to invest in the country and our infrastructure which in turn would boost the economy then the markets wouldn’t be so spooked and peoples lives might improve. Instead what we have is the next government saying, ‘things are shit right now, we’ll try to make them slightly less shit’. Labour haven't ruled out spending on infrastructure though. It would make sense to emabrk on a huge Keynsian revolution to boost growth, improve productivity, and make us fit for purpose in the coming decades. I'd reverse HS2 again, get the national grid sorted out, build masses of social housing and ancillary infrastructure, and stop shit flowing into rivers, all using public money. Can't see any of that spooking the markets and it would be hugely popular with the electorate. Fingers crossed they hire me as an advisor on a seven digit salary. 👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 37874 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Dazzler said: The thing is, if he had even the slightest hint of charm or charisma he could have spun this into a witty bit, and pointed out that even though he's privileged he has seen and understood the problems of the working people etc through his roles in politics. It would be enough to win over some idiots and improve his profile a bit. But he's a complete robot and every time he opens his gob, he just makes things worse. The best thing the tories could do would be to keep the spanner as far away from microphones and cameras as possible He should just be honest and say "I was really fortunate not to have to go without as a child, and it's what I want for all kids in this country". It would be a lie, but at least it couldn't be clipped up and used to make him look like an out-of-touch idiot. The thing is, I bet his brain feels like it's been through a liquidiser at this stage. He won't be able to open his mouth without wondering whether he's saying something wrong as the words are falling out of his mouth. Even delivering rehearsed and prepared lines is killing him, so the prospect of sitting in front of someone and not knowing where the next half an hour is going to go in terms of questions must be shit. The pressure must be insane. I can't feel remotely sorry for him though. He'll live the rest of his life in absolute luxury, whilst everyone else suffers the consequences of his time in government. Edited June 12 by Gemmill 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18929 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 2 hours ago, Gemmill said: It's a sign of what a great country we live in that a little Winchester College boy who "famously" doesn't even have Sky TV can one day grow up to be Prime Minister. What a rags to riches story. Wait, this is the interview he left the D day commemorations for? So, he bascially made a catastrophic electoral mistake so he he could go and do another catastrophic electoral mistake? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 17866 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 8 minutes ago, Renton said: Labour haven't ruled out spending on infrastructure though. It would make sense to emabrk on a huge Keynsian revolution to boost growth, improve productivity, and make us fit for purpose in the coming decades. I'd reverse HS2 again, get the national grid sorted out, build masses of social housing and ancillary infrastructure, and stop shit flowing into rivers, all using public money. Can't see any of that spooking the markets and it would be hugely popular with the electorate. Fingers crossed they hire me as an advisor on a seven digit salary. 👍 The infrastructure in this country is well fucked. Are we too far down the line to take highways maintenance out of private hands and put it back into public? The social housing this is huge and is so seriously needed. Not 'affordable' housing btw, proper social housing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18929 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 9 minutes ago, Gemmill said: He should just be honest and say "I was really fortunate not to have to go without as a child, and it's what I want for all kids in this country". It would be a lie, but at least it couldn't be clipped up and used to make him look like an out-of-touch idiot. The thing is, I bet his brain feels like it's been through a liquidiser at this stage. He won't be able to open his mouth without wondering whether he's saying something wrong as the words are falling out of his mouth. Even delivering rehearsed and prepared lines is killing him, so the prospect of sitting in front of someone and not knowing where the next half an hour is going to go in terms of questions must be shit. The pressure must be insane. I can't feel remotely sorry for him though. He'll live the rest of his life in absolute luxury, whilst everyone else suffers the consequences of his time in government. That first line is exactly what Cameron used iirc. Although he went on to say, he wanted to spread privilege to everyone, which is clearly a logical contradiction. Didn't stop thick cunts lapping it up though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18929 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 Ooof, just heard a clip there of Sunak apologising to Brand for being 15 minutes late because the D-day celebrations "ran over". 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 17866 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 Manford listening to Gemmill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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