Politics

[Renton 22035]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I don't know tbh. Maybe a bit but I pay so little attention now that I imagine it might just swapping a couple of texts with friends afterwards, not watching it as it happens. The Tories won, they pulled everything to the right, got everyone to accept Brexit, and have ruined the country. Now we're just rearranging deckchairs on the titanic. It's hard to celebrate it even if they do get wiped out.

 

One way of looking at it. An odd way I think, thinking they somehow won. The reality as I see it is the tories have been ripped apart from their own right wing. Cameron tried a referundum on Brexit to solve it once and for all, nearly 10 years down the line the lies told about Brexit have destroyed the party completely. 

Yes, it's true the Overton window may have been shifted right but with the elimination of the tories it can shift leftwards to the centre again. Mind, this is against a backdrop with rightwing parties doing better across all the developed world. Starmer's Labour look quite progressive against this context. 

And it you can't enjoy a tory annihilation now and again, definitely time to give up on politics. 

[Dr Gloom 22192]

21 minutes ago, NJS said:

Sometimes I think Starmer may be decent and is managed by more cuntish people but that view is just becoming harder to maintain. 

 

This talking to the prick from the Sun and indulging in flag fucking over this Nike row is the latest example. 

that’s the precisely the shit that he needs to do that Corbyn couldn’t bring himself to participate in, because he was so “principled”/unelectable .

 

The culture wars are all the Tories have left. Would you rather he didn’t shag flags and we gave the Tories an open goal? In the scheme of things, who gives a shit whether he plays the game so floating voters think he’s patriotic? 

[Dazzler 10445]

13 minutes ago, NJS said:

It's cowardice. 

 

I need the votes of brexiters so we can't have an adult conversation about the EU. 

 

I need the votes of transphobes so we can't have an adult conversation about trans rights. 

 

I need the votes of mail readers so we can't have an adult conversation about drugs or the role of youth services in preventing crimes so instead we'll have more crackdowns

 

I need the votes of EDL types so I have to fuck the flag and worship the royals

 

No discussion allowed. 

 

As I've said before this will never change as once theyte in power they'll be scared of losing those votes. 

 

75% of those people will be dead by the time the next election rolls around since most of them fit into the same demographic in a lot of cases: nasty, old cunts.

 

I don't see his approach as cowardly, I see it as strategic - aye, it's not going to appeal to leftier lefties - but it is exactly what is needed to win an election. His position of keeping his mouth shut and letting the tories sink themselves is the correct one IMO. 

[Rayvin 5334]

Just now, Dazzler said:

 

75% of those people will be dead by the time the next election rolls around since most of them fit into the same demographic in a lot of cases: nasty, old cunts.

 

I don't see his approach as cowardly, I see it as strategic - aye, it's not going to appeal to leftier lefties - but it is exactly what is needed to win an election. His position of keeping his mouth shut and letting the tories sink themselves is the correct one IMO. 

 

My cat could win the election at this point if it happened to lead the Labour Party.

[Alex 35663]

Corbyn’s ‘bravery’ did a lot of fucking good and was fundamental in facilitating a hard Brexit tbh 

[Dazzler 10445]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

My cat could win the election at this point if it happened to lead the Labour Party.

Let's not get carried away here. What are it's policies, first?

[Rayvin 5334]

Just now, Dazzler said:

Let's not get carried away here. What are it's policies, first?

 

Based on this morning, a free half devoured mouse to every householder.

[Dazzler 10445]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

Based on this morning, a free half devoured mouse to every householder.

I think I'd vote Green tbh

[PaddockLad 17731]

Just now, Dazzler said:

Let's not get carried away here. What are it's policies, first?

Hes not saying until the election. Several members of the dog walking gang in his neighbourhood are waiting to pounce on his every miaow 😑

 

[Dr Gloom 22192]

some people call it flag shagging. to others, it's called winning 

 

[Dr Gloom 22192]

28 minutes ago, Alex said:

Corbyn’s ‘bravery’ did a lot of fucking good and was fundamental in facilitating a hard Brexit tbh 

 

exactly. owen jones and co are welcome to piss off and form their own meaningless reform-style party for the hard left where they can all sit in a circle and talk to each other about their principles. they had their go running the labour party and they fucked it. let the grown ups win power and start the slow process of rebuilding the mess the tories created in the last 15 years.

 

 

[Rayvin 5334]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

exactly. owen jones and co are welcome to piss off and form their own meaningless reform-style party for the hard left where they can all sit in a circle and talk to each other about their principles. they had their go running the labour party and they fucked it. let the grown ups win power and start the slow process of rebuilding the mess the tories created in the last 15 years.

 

 

 

Precisely. See, Gloom gets it. He knows there's no place for someone like me in the Labour Party, and he's not afraid to say it. I respect that.

 

I came to the same conclusion my friend.

 

And yes, we may have had two complete failures to win an election from the grown up centrist wing of Labour prior to the left having a shot, but that simply isn't worth noting.

 

 

[Dazzler 10445]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

Precisely. See, Gloom gets it. He knows there's no place for someone like me in the Labour Party, and he's not afraid to say it. I respect that.

 

I came to the same conclusion my friend.

 

And yes, we may have had two complete failures to win an election from the grown up centrist wing of Labour prior to the left having a shot, but that simply isn't worth noting.

 

 

I'll never forgive that bacon sandwich. Cunt. Ruined everything.

 

[Rayvin 5334]

That sandwich does indeed have a lot to answer for. I wonder how much of that loss was the sandwich, and how much was the Tories successfully attaching the SNP to Labour.

 

It is a bit of a shame tbh, I think Miliband could have done ok.

[Dazzler 10445]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

That sandwich does indeed have a lot to answer for. I wonder how much of that loss was the sandwich, and how much was the Tories successfully attaching the SNP to Labour.

 

It is a bit of a shame tbh, I think Miliband could have done ok.

A little of A and a little of B probably. But mainly A

[Dazzler 10445]

The fact that photo has it's own wikipedia page suggests it's definitely mainly A

[Dr Gloom 22192]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Precisely. See, Gloom gets it. He knows there's no place for someone like me in the Labour Party, and he's not afraid to say it. I respect that.

 

I came to the same conclusion my friend.

 

And yes, we may have had two complete failures to win an election from the grown up centrist wing of Labour prior to the left having a shot, but that simply isn't worth noting.

 

 

 

you're talking about Brown losing in 2010? that one was cyclical. people were ready for change and the tories successfully weaponised the global financial crisis. i can't blame brown too much for that. he got his chance at the top job too late in the end and he was always a bit too dour and a bit too scotish, despite doing some really good things as chancellor and pm (notably leading the world out of global financial meltdown) 

 

miliband fucked it in 2015, i agree. there was space then to oppose austerity and he bottled it. so much of it did hinge on his failure to eat a bacon sandwich and his apparent lack of a personality though - such a shame because he has shown he is a funny likeable bloke in the years since. it's sad so many politicians are scared to show their personality when they have one. 

 

the truth is though that elections are won in the centre. it's once you win power that you can move to the left and actually change the country for the better. i get why he isn't saying anything right now but i'll quick to judge him if he is chicken shit once he's in downing street too. 

 

the labour party has always been a broad church and i wouldn't say you're not welcome. but owen jones and the rest, who are only happy when throwing grenades at the leadership when we're finally on the brink of victory, can see themselves out. if they'd rather try to derail things than try to positively influence future policy then just fuck off. 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3997]

Remember how Labour deregulation exacerbated the 2008 financial crisis?

 

well they’re going to double down if they win.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/30/labour-vows-to-cut-financial-red-tape-and-unashamedly-champion-uk-sector 

[Rayvin 5334]

15 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

you're talking about Brown losing in 2010? that one was cyclical. people were ready for change and the tories successfully weaponised the global financial crisis. i can't blame brown too much for that. he got his chance at the top job too late in the end and he was always a bit too dour and a bit too scotish, despite doing some really good things as chancellor and pm (notably leading the world out of global financial meltdown) 

 

miliband fucked it in 2015, i agree. there was space then to oppose austerity and he bottled it. so much of it did hinge on his failure to eat a bacon sandwich and his apparent lack of a personality though - such a shame because he has shown he is a funny likeable bloke in the years since. it's sad so many politicians are scared to show their personality when they have one. 

 

the truth is though that elections are won in the centre. it's once you win power that you can move to the left and actually change the country for the better. i get why he isn't saying anything right now but i'll quick to judge him if he is chicken shit once he's in downing street too. 

 

the labour party has always been a broad church and i wouldn't say you're not welcome. but owen jones and the rest, who are only happy when throwing grenades at the leadership when we're finally on the brink of victory, can see themselves out. if they'd rather try to derail things than try to positively influence future policy then just fuck off. 

 

The centrists did the same to Corbyn for the entirety of his tenure. There was article after article about how unhappy they were and if I recall correctly there was a leadership challenge that they were obliterated in as well.

 

Taking the partisan glasses off for both sides here, the broad church is dead. Both sides have turned on each other and it is not going to be reversed. To his credit, Starmer has recognised this and instead of trying to placate the left and build bridges, has gone for the soft right. That is all that is happening here IMO. So Labour have shifted right to compensate for the collapse of the broad church, and due to the Tories heading farther right themselves.

 

The moderate left is now fairly homeless. The one upside for me is that I just do not care anymore. This is the first political conversation I've had in months, whereas it used to be daily. I am now free. The UK sucks, its going to hell, no one is going to prevent that, and I have accepted it. It's nice to re-run the old hits of course..!

[Dr Gloom 22192]

i'm moderate left and i'm voting labour. let's see if they make life better or worse after the next election. i will be amazed if they govern from the soft right, as you put it. 

[NJS 4411]

 

I'd be amazed if they govern from the soft right too - that would be far too to the left for Reeves, Kendall and Streeting. 

[Dr Gloom 22192]

22 minutes ago, NJS said:

 

I'd be amazed if they govern from the soft right too - that would be far too to the left for Reeves, Kendall and Streeting. 

 

sigh

 

was life in the uk better or worse under blair and brown than it has been for the past 14 years under the tories? 

 

they were also "soft right" flag shaggers 

[Renton 22035]

34 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

sigh

 

was life in the uk better or worse under blair and brown than it has been for the past 14 years under the tories? 

 

they were also "soft right" flag shaggers 

 

No, Blair doesn't count any more because he is apparently far to the left of Starmer and his cabinet. Goal posts were shifted yesterday, can't talk about successes of the past, only allowed to talk about an imagined future. 

I would also consider myself a "moderate left" if we're putting labels on things, or centre leftist, or whatever label of the Peoples' Front of Judea you want to use. . I'm also a pragmatist and a realist. This country will never vote for the type of socialism promoted by Corbyn and his followers, that's the hard truth of it. I am convinced Owen Jones and the like enjoy being under a neo-facist government so they can twist and moan about the predicament the country is in. Getting elected into power and actually practically helping people, not so much. 

 

[Rayvin 5334]

I guess we shall soon see what splendours Labour have in store for us.

 

Very little point in arguing about it though, none of us have a fucking clue what they'll do at this point and this board in general has a shocking track record with predictions anyway. Remember when we all thought that the Tories would never see out a full term after Brexit?

[Dazzler 10445]

34 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

No, Blair doesn't count any more because he is apparently far to the left of Starmer and his cabinet. Goal posts were shifted yesterday, can't talk about successes of the past, only allowed to talk about an imagined future. 

I would also consider myself a "moderate left" if we're putting labels on things, or centre leftist, or whatever label of the Peoples' Front of Judea you want to use. . I'm also a pragmatist and a realist. This country will never vote for the type of socialism promoted by Corbyn and his followers, that's the hard truth of it. I am convinced Owen Jones and the like enjoy being under a neo-facist government so they can twist and moan about the predicament the country is in. Getting elected into power and actually practically helping people, not so much. 

 

Starmer is a bit dull, that's as harsh as anyone can realistically say yet the far right are labelling him a socialist loon and the far left are labelling him a tory cunt. That's how I come to the conclusion that he's probably the right person for the job. If he's pissing off the minority of either side of the spectrum then he's probably going to do alright by the majority.