Politics

[Dazzler 9748]

Fixed it

[ewerk 30602]

5 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

 

Boris won solely because of Corbyn IMO. The centrist fence sitters were never going to swing left for him, it really didn't matter what he did or said. Had Starmer been in post then, we'd have a labour government now, I reckon.

 

Nah, Johnson won because of Brexit and people like you calling him Boris. 52% of the country voted for Brexit and he was promising to get it done and despite what anyone thinks of him he does have a charismatic veneer that Starmer doesn't. Most of the public though don't bother to scratch beneath the surface.

[Renton 21621]

1 minute ago, Dazzler said:

Bojo? Johnson? Fat Cunt? 

 

EIther his correct name, fat cunt, or his given name, Alexander de'Pfeffel. Not his stage name implying he is some harmless cuddly buffoon. 

[Toonpack 9399]

11 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

 

Boris Fat Cunt won solely because of Corbyn IMO. The centrist fence sitters were never going to swing left for him, it really didn't matter what he did or said. Had Starmer been in post then, we'd have a labour government now, I reckon.

 

Aye, the second the poor lass's dad commented on it it should have been a damage control apology, on the spot, without delay - not wheeling out an endless supply of detestable cunts to try and tell everyone that the thing they heard, and was explicitly clear in it's intention was actually not that at all. Not only does it make them look incompetent but it highlights how they view the voting public - as a bunch of thick plebs who'll buy anything their selling.

 

Many are unfortunately

 

p.s. *they're

[Dazzler 9748]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

Nah, Johnson won because of Brexit and people like you calling him Boris. 52% of the country voted for Brexit and he was promising to get it done and despite what anyone thinks of him he does have a charismatic veneer that Starmer doesn't. Most of the public though don't bother to scratch beneath the surface.

 

Of that 52% how many were dead and/or changed their minds by the time of the 'get brexit done' election? I reckon enough to swing it had it not been Corbyn leading labour at that time. Starmer would have been a more palatable front man for those swing voters by being more centre left in his policies etc and would have beaten the tories - at least in my opinion.

 

I think all it would have taken was someone with a bit of professionalism and competence with an actual plan, who's face fit with the press to outdo all the bluster from the other side. If Corbyn was still leading labour now we'd likely be heading for another 4 years of tory leadership, even after all the complete fuck ups since the last election.

[NJS 4379]

I know it was down to May being shit as well but Corbyn was "getting there" by the 2017 election. That frightened too many people (including large number of Labour MPs and advisers as proved by Forde)  so the bullshit was turned to 11 to ensure he lost in 2019. Of course he contributed to that himself but included in that exercise was the convenient "get brexit done" where Corbyn was fucked for trying to please both sides of the divide and instead pleasing neither.  You could argue now people like Starmer deliberately pushed the second referendum as part of that campaign to fuck him as the "respect the result" position in 2017 was more popular generally. 

 

Now the same people who promoted a disaster knowing he'd be a disaster are allowing a "grown-up" to have a turn as long as he makes sure nothing changes in any meaningful way. 

[Dr Gloom 21915]

13 minutes ago, NJS said:

I know it was down to May being shit as well but Corbyn was "getting there" by the 2017 election. That frightened too many people (including large number of Labour MPs and advisers as proved by Forde)  so the bullshit was turned to 11 to ensure he lost in 2019. Of course he contributed to that himself but included in that exercise was the convenient "get brexit done" where Corbyn was fucked for trying to please both sides of the divide and instead pleasing neither.  You could argue now people like Starmer deliberately pushed the second referendum as part of that campaign to fuck him as the "respect the result" position in 2017 was more popular generally. 

 

Now the same people who promoted a disaster knowing he'd be a disaster are allowing a "grown-up" to have a turn as long as he makes sure nothing changes in any meaningful way. 

Corbyn was an absolute disaster for the Labour party and the country. I  blame him almost as much as Johnson and Cameron for where we are now. The useless cunt facilitated this shambles 

Edited February 8 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 21915]

 

strong “chaos with Ed Miliband” vibes 

Edited February 8 by Dr Gloom

[ewerk 30602]

24 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

 

Of that 52% how many were dead and/or changed their minds by the time of the 'get brexit done' election? I reckon enough to swing it had it not been Corbyn leading labour at that time. Starmer would have been a more palatable front man for those swing voters by being more centre left in his policies etc and would have beaten the tories - at least in my opinion.

 

I think all it would have taken was someone with a bit of professionalism and competence with an actual plan, who's face fit with the press to outdo all the bluster from the other side. If Corbyn was still leading labour now we'd likely be heading for another 4 years of tory leadership, even after all the complete fuck ups since the last election.

 

In December 2019 only 5% of the electorate who voted for Brexit had changed their mind. That election was fought on Brexit and no anti/soft on Brexit campaign was going to win.

[Renton 21621]

14 minutes ago, NJS said:

I know it was down to May being shit as well but Corbyn was "getting there" by the 2017 election. That frightened too many people (including large number of Labour MPs and advisers as proved by Forde)  so the bullshit was turned to 11 to ensure he lost in 2019. Of course he contributed to that himself but included in that exercise was the convenient "get brexit done" where Corbyn was fucked for trying to please both sides of the divide and instead pleasing neither.  You could argue now people like Starmer deliberately pushed the second referendum as part of that campaign to fuck him as the "respect the result" position in 2017 was more popular generally. 

 

Now the same people who promoted a disaster knowing he'd be a disaster are allowing a "grown-up" to have a turn as long as he makes sure nothing changes in any meaningful way. 

 

Sorry, this is paranoid delusional nonsense. It just shows to me that those who follow populist leaders, no matter how otherwise intelligent, are completely blind to reality when it comes to them. Be that Johnson, Trump, or Corbyn. 

[Dazzler 9748]

11 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

strong “chaos with Ed Miliband” vibes 

What sort of chaos would we have to endure? Probably, no worse than the last decade+ of chaos we've endured under the conservatives probably, Jeremy. The idea of better the devil you know here is fucking nuts, in fact "doing the same things and hoping for different results" is the tory go to, and is quite literally the definition of insanity.

[NJS 4379]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

Sorry, this is paranoid delusional nonsense. It just shows to me that those who follow populist leaders, no matter how otherwise intelligent, are completely blind to reality when it comes to them. Be that Johnson, Trump, or Corbyn. 

What do you mean by populist regarding Corbyn? 

 

Because he "played" Glastonbury and actually engaged with young voters rather than ignoring them like the rest? 

 

He had a cult following because he actually had/has principles and decent policies - yeah give me some shit about useless without power but we've had 45 years of the Thatcherite  consensus and we're going to get another 20 years so excuse me for actually wanting  something else. 

 

Let's have a beige policy-less manager who inspires nobody and nothing - much better for democracy. 

 

 

[Dr Gloom 21915]

53 minutes ago, NJS said:

What do you mean by populist regarding Corbyn? 

 

Because he "played" Glastonbury and actually engaged with young voters rather than ignoring them like the rest? 

 

He had a cult following because he actually had/has principles and decent policies - yeah give me some shit about useless without power but we've had 45 years of the Thatcherite  consensus and we're going to get another 20 years so excuse me for actually wanting  something else. 

 

Let's have a beige policy-less manager who inspires nobody and nothing - much better for democracy. 

 

 

 

do you remember the blair/brown years? life in the uk then was pretty good. it's extraordinary that the left of the labour party refuse to acknowledge it.

 

we can all agree blair's legacy is forever stained by iraq but he did what all successful politicians do - win power to improve people's lives. find a pragmatic way to make sure you're electable and speak to the floating voters who decide elections. corbyn was absolutely useless at this and he helped inflict misery on the country - an absolutely terrible politician.

Edited February 8 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 21915]

14 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

What sort of chaos would we have to endure? Probably, no worse than the last decade+ of chaos we've endured under the conservatives probably, Jeremy. The idea of better the devil you know here is fucking nuts, in fact "doing the same things and hoping for different results" is the tory go to, and is quite literally the definition of insanity.

 

it wouldn't have been at all chaotic. we would have avoided the EU referendum which fucked the country, for starters 

[Dazzler 9748]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

it wouldn't have been at all chaotic. we would have avoided the EU referendum which fucked the country, for starters 

I completely agree, but the tories pushed the referendum and caused everything that has subsequently happened. We've had nothing but chaos since 2016 at least - and seems to only get worse with each passing day/month/year. All I was pointing out (or attempting to) was a labour government flip flopping on some policies (or as it's normally known - changing plans or adapting to changing factors in the external landscape) would be no more chaotic than the chaos caused by the last several tory governments. In fact, it would likely be significantly less chaotic as it shows they are willing to adapt as things change, rather than doubling down on the bullshit that has been proven doesn't work.

[Gemmill 44864]

The latest Tory masterstroke is to attack Starmer for u-turning on the £28bn and simultaneously claim that he hasn't really u-turned cos he's still gonna do it.

 

[wykikitoon 20129]

They're getting too fixated on the actual figure of the green policy.

[Alex 35079]

40 minutes ago, NJS said:

What do you mean by populist regarding Corbyn? 

 

Because he "played" Glastonbury and actually engaged with young voters rather than ignoring them like the rest? 

 

He had a cult following because he actually had/has principles and decent policies - yeah give me some shit about useless without power but we've had 45 years of the Thatcherite  consensus and we're going to get another 20 years so excuse me for actually wanting  something else. 

 

Let's have a beige policy-less manager who inspires nobody and nothing - much better for democracy. 

 

 

I think there’s a tragedy to him that a lot of his policies were good. But he couldn’t bring himself to even play the game a little bit. I also think he lacked the intellect to see the bigger picture on foreign policy, where he was definitely quite 6th from politics. The antisemitism stuff was handled so badly to the point I think he’s antisemitic without probably realising that himself. 
You obviously need to get in to effect change but I do agree in part with your views on Starmer. Whilst also recognising his decency as a person imo anyway. 
But I’ve said on here before that if they don’t look at stuff like voting reform and rowing back the stuff of the last 13 years or whatever it’s been then we’re getting an even worse version of the right gaining power not too far down the line 

[Dr Gloom 21915]

15 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

I completely agree, but the tories pushed the referendum and caused everything that has subsequently happened. We've had nothing but chaos since 2016 at least - and seems to only get worse with each passing day/month/year. All I was pointing out (or attempting to) was a labour government flip flopping on some policies (or as it's normally known - changing plans or adapting to changing factors in the external landscape) would be no more chaotic than the chaos caused by the last several tory governments. In fact, it would likely be significantly less chaotic as it shows they are willing to adapt as things change, rather than doubling down on the bullshit that has been proven doesn't work.

 

5 years of austerity prior to that too

[Rayvin 5220]

I continue to despair at Starmer. He is consistently inconsistent and IMO a complete waste of an opportunity. A boiled turnip could beat the Tories this time out and would probably be more effective.

[Gemmill 44864]

 

 

The video started again and I didn't even realise cos that's what it's like having to listen to this robot. 

[Renton 21621]

2 hours ago, NJS said:

What do you mean by populist regarding Corbyn? 

 

Because he "played" Glastonbury and actually engaged with young voters rather than ignoring them like the rest? 

 

He had a cult following because he actually had/has principles and decent policies - yeah give me some shit about useless without power but we've had 45 years of the Thatcherite  consensus and we're going to get another 20 years so excuse me for actually wanting  something else. 

 

Let's have a beige policy-less manager who inspires nobody and nothing - much better for democracy. 

 

 

 

Listen to yourself in the post I quoted, theorising that Starmer was deliberately supporting a second referendum to depose of Corbyn. Is this what you seriously believe? Popularism, victimhood, and conspiracy theories are all linked. 

Corbyn is popularist in the loose sense of the word, they're not all right wing demigogues. He had his own cult which seems to have included you. Like all popularists eventually, he has been consigned to the dust bin of history, I just despair in the damage he comitted though the opportunity cost of a lost half decade of opposition when it most mattered. 

I would hope that at the very least you could recognise that under Starmer and Labour at least government wil return to a sense of competency and an end to overt corruption. I suspect not though. 

[ewerk 30602]

53 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I continue to despair at Starmer. He is consistently inconsistent and IMO a complete waste of an opportunity. A boiled turnip could beat the Tories this time out and would probably be more effective.

 

I think Starmer agrees with you and that's why he's chosen this approach. He knows he's going to become PM by default so why give the opposition any ammunition to attack him? I agree it's completely uninspiring but we have to hope than he does have a plan to effect meaningful change for the better when he's in No.10.

[Renton 21621]

14 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

 

The video started again and I didn't even realise cos that's what it's like having to listen to this robot. 

 

"Not knowing what a woman is" is a major policy now is it? 

 

[Dazzler 9748]

Just now, ewerk said:

 

I think Starmer agrees with you and that's why he's chosen this approach. He knows he's going to become PM by default so why give the opposition any ammunition to attack him? I agree it's completely uninspiring but we have to hope than he does have a plan to effect meaningful change for the better when he's in No.10.

 

Completely agree with this. His approach is dull, and he's been pretty non-committal on most issues so far, but all he has to do is be professional and show an ounce of competence (which I think is exactly what he's done/is doing) and he walks the election without breaking a sweat. As others have mentioned, at his core I think Starmer is a decent bloke, but even if he isn't that decent so long as he's a competent one he'll be a fucking vast improvement on what we have at the minute.