Politics

[Ginolaandtonic 169]

1 hour ago, Toonpack said:

 

Erm what! explain ??

 

The country that paid for them to get qualified doesn’t get the benefit but we do.

 

seems a bit entitled if you ask me

[Renton 21440]

There's a real weird notion at the moment that we should only allow immigration for "high value" individuals. So yeah, let's allow consultants in but not fruit pickers, hospiltality workers or carers. But the ultimate outcome of this would surelyt be indiginous Brits will have to do the low value jobs whilst immigrants do the high value jobs? How does that make sense?

 

Starmer is really beginning to fuck me off at this point playing to the lowest common denominator. I personally hope he is just a temporary means to a much a better end. Now is exactly the time we should be radical, directly challenging the problems with our constitution and our relationship with our European neighbours. To go all essembee on his arse, he's a coward. To go Begbie on him, he's a shitein cunt, a disappointment. 

[Renton 21440]

3 minutes ago, Ginolaandtonic said:

 

The country that paid for them to get qualified doesn’t get the benefit but we do.

 

seems a bit entitled if you ask me

 

I know what you meant and you're essentially right. But two things. FIrstly,  FoM was a two way thing, with some of our medical staff going to work in Europe, so didn't reallly apply to the EU, whose countries are now richer than us in the main. Secondly, yes it is morally questionable whether we should import medical staff from developing countries. To stop this, we need to train A LOT more medical staff. This is going to take a decade if we ever get round to setting the wheels in motion. 

[trophyshy 7075]

7 minutes ago, Renton said:

There's a real weird notion at the moment that we should only allow immigration for "high value" individuals. So yeah, let's allow consultants in but not fruit pickers, hospiltality workers or carers. But the ultimate outcome of this would surelyt be indiginous Brits will have to do the low value jobs whilst immigrants do the high value jobs? How does that make sense?

 

Starmer is really beginning to fuck me off at this point playing to the lowest common denominator. I personally hope he is just a temporary means to a much a better end. Now is exactly the time we should be radical, directly challenging the problems with our constitution and our relationship with our European neighbours. To go all essembee on his arse, he's a coward. To go Begbie on him, he's a shitein cunt, a disappointment. 

 

 You should ask him if he would like a fight.  

[Renton 21440]

1 minute ago, trophyshy said:

 

 You should ask him if he would like a fight.  

 

"HEY! KEITH! Square go right now you bastid".

 

Soft as shite Islington cunt I bet.  We should put him and Sunak in a bear pit like Gorbachev and Reagan in the two tribes video to settle their differences imo. Charge PPV, make some money for nurses whilst we're at it. 

[Holden McGroin 6550]

I reckon my local A&E will be lucky to survive another year. Nurses dropping like flies over abuse and stress. 

 

I'd say its a mix of brutal Tory austerity, new found British entitlement and lack of respect to staff.

 

I hope no-one gets sick soon.

[Dr Gloom 21868]

2 hours ago, ewerk said:

 

Fuck the fuck off, Starmer.

 

doubling down on the bigoted brexit voter just as public opinion starts to shift 

 

[PaddockLad 17157]

The tories were briefing about moving to a Switzerland type arrangement at the weekend. With that in mind these headlines may well be helpful. And he’s right about low paid UK workers. The economy needs to be changed radically so people don’t need to work three jobs to pay the rent 

 

[Gemmill 44559]

Just now, PaddockLad said:

The tories were briefing about moving to a Switzerland type arrangement at the weekend. With that in mind these headlines may well be helpful. And he’s right about low paid UK workers. The economy needs to be changed radically so people don’t need to work three jobs to pay the rent 

 

 

Aye this is what I took from it. Stop paying people so little that they have to call in at the foodbank on the way home from work. 

[Renton 21440]

17 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

I reckon my local A&E will be lucky to survive another year. Nurses dropping like flies over abuse and stress. 

 

I'd say its a mix of brutal Tory austerity, new found British entitlement and lack of respect to staff.

 

I hope no-one gets sick soon.

 

My mum fell over and had a nasty gash on her leg last week. Tooke her to A&E and tbh they were spot on, only a 3 hour wait (which is good oging nowadays) and dressed it. But she needs it to dressed twice a week for the next 12 weeks or so. Absolutely impossible to access this service through primary care. I've managed to scrape together 3 appointments over a month, rather than the 8 she should have in this period. Other than that they are advising me to go back to A&E ffs. So what might well happen is the wound won't heal properly and she'll end up using much more resources in the long term. Genius. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Renton

[Renton 21440]

4 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

The tories were briefing about moving to a Switzerland type arrangement at the weekend. With that in mind these headlines may well be helpful. And he’s right about low paid UK workers. The economy needs to be changed radically so people don’t need to work three jobs to pay the rent 

 

 

Well okay, let's take seasonal work like fruit picking. Ideal for young folk from neighbouring countries to do the job as part of their summer holidays, experience the country that way. Same with hospitality. Then they go back home. But noooo, we can't have that so instead fruit rots in fields and restaurants shut down. We need immigration regardless of pay, the two are related but ultimately seperate issues, and he's concentrating on the wrong one to appeal to the gammons. 

[Holden McGroin 6550]

28 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

My mum fell over and had a nasty gash on her leg last week. Tooke her to A&E and tbh they were spot on, only a 3 hour wait (which is good oging nowadays) and dressed it. But she needs it to dressed twice a week for the next 12 weeks or so. Absolutely impossible to access this service through primary care. I've managed to scrape together 3 appointments over a month, rather than the 8 she should have in this period. Other than that they are advising me to go back to A&E ffs. So what might well happen is the wound won't heal properly and she'll end up using much more resources in the long term. Genius. 

 

3 hours is pretty good. Was 6 last night here. 

 

Aye, the system is knackered. The amount of GPs and 111 that just refer anything and everything to A&E is overwhelming. Mrs said since COVID they just get the brunt of everything.

 

In reality, the NHS has probably gone now. Even if an alternative gov got in now its going to take decades to repair. Staff shortages everywhere

[Renton 21440]

3 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

 

3 hours is pretty good. Was 6 last night here. 

 

Aye, the system is knackered. The amount of GPs and 111 that just refer anything and everything to A&E is overwhelming. Mrs said since COVID they just get the brunt of everything.

 

In reality, the NHS has probably gone now. Even if an alternative gov got in now its going to take decades to repair. Staff shortages everywhere

 

I think it's rescuable with the right resources and management, I fucking hope so. If we lose free at the point of care medical services what have we got left? We'll just be a poor version of the US without the guns. Still, that was the dream of a lot of tories all along, which is why I have to grit my teeth and go along with Starmer.  

[Holden McGroin 6550]

Was the Scottish talking about charging the wealthy for care yesterday? (I only saw the headline so haven't read full article yet).

[Renton 21440]

1 minute ago, Holden McGroin said:

Was the Scottish talking about charging the wealthy for care yesterday? (I only saw the headline so haven't read full article yet).

 

I think it was leaked from one of their think tanks. Tbh I do think a two tier NHS might be inevitable. To give you an example, I work on economic analyses of drugs that can cost in excess of £100,000 per annum. Modern medical technologies are sometimes eye wateringly expensive, difficult to see how thay can be offered to everyone free of charge. Question is, should that mean they are available to no-one, or only those that can afford them? I'm uncomfortable with both options. 

[Holden McGroin 6550]

Tricky one but I guess id go with pay for it rather than not have it (depending on circumstance of course). The problem with that route is it will open the floodgates.

[Toonpack 9316]

1 hour ago, Ginolaandtonic said:

 

The country that paid for them to get qualified doesn’t get the benefit but we do.

 

seems a bit entitled if you ask me

 

Ah OK, thought you may have been in the "foreign qualifications not good enough for us camp" thanks for clarifying.

[Ginolaandtonic 169]

You’d have to be nuts to look at US healthcare and think that’s the answer!

[Ginolaandtonic 169]

Just now, Toonpack said:

 

Ah OK, thought you may have been in the "foreign qualifications not good enough for us camp" thanks for clarifying.

 

Not in the least, just think it’s really arrogant to harvest them!

[Toonpack 9316]

23 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I think it was leaked from one of their think tanks. Tbh I do think a two tier NHS might be inevitable. To give you an example, I work on economic analyses of drugs that can cost in excess of £100,000 per annum. Modern medical technologies are sometimes eye wateringly expensive, difficult to see how thay can be offered to everyone free of charge. Question is, should that mean they are available to no-one, or only those that can afford them? I'm uncomfortable with both options. 

 

Appreciate the wider point, but there's a question about a level of ethical profit, yeah Pharma has to recoup it's R&D (which when being expended is a business cost and therefore tax deductible) but of that £100K once these things are in production how much is profit.

[Renton 21440]

2 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

 

Appreciate the wider point, but there's a question about a level of ethical profit, yeah Pharma has to recoup it's R&D (which when being expended is a business cost and therefore tax deductible) but of that £100K once these things are in production how much is profit.

 

In this instance you're talking of a disease affecting about 1 in 500,000 population, only suitable in maybe half of these. So 60 individuals in UK. Still costs hundreds of millions to get to market though. So only way of recouping is to have an astronomical list price (or more likely a confidential patient access arrangement). 

 

You're going to see more of these issues with personalised medicines in the 21st century. We have incredible knowledge, skills, and technologies in medicine, but we don't have a Rodenberryesque method of distributing the benefits gained. 

[Renton 21440]

Well, they've got a point but also a massive cheek too.

 

 

 

[ewerk 30403]

 

But having thousands of people crowded in there definitely wasn’t a deliberate policy choice.

[Gemmill 44559]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/22/bright-blue-founder-to-quit-over-tory-partys-betrayal-of-millennials

 

I love this story. 37 year old quits the Tory think-tank he founded because its come to his attention that Tories are not that into looking after millennials.

 

You'd think a bloke heading up a think tank would have had this thought sooner. 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Gemmill

[Renton 21440]

Fucking hell

 

 

Quote

Like most Brexiters, Paterson has never been fond of the European court of human rights – although of course this court is not part of the EU.

But, in the light of his decision to launch legal action, Paterson may be glad the government never followed the advice of the prominent Tory who gave a speech in 2014 saying the UK should break free of the European convention on human rights, on which the court adjudicates. That was Paterson himself.