Politics

[Craig 6682]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

If someone had desrcibed Clarke as a moderate to me 30 years ago I would have laughed in their faces. Heseltine too. Also recently people like Gaulke, Stewart, Soubry. They all at least seem human now as the tories have drifted so far right, dragging labour in their wake. 

 

Couldn't agree with you more. Utterly crazy, isn't it? 

The complete inability of the recent Tory PMs to get representation of the entire Conservative spectrum around the cabinet is frankly staggering. Even Thatcher had Heseltine at one end in contrast to Tebbit at the other. 

But then the modern-day Tory party is fuck all like the one we grew up knowing. As you pointed out earlier, Johnson put paid to that by expelling the pro-EU element. It's probably the most damaging legacy he has as it'll render the Tories an ineffective opposition. And let's be honest, every effective government requires an effective opposition to hold them to account. 

Imagine if the SNP became the official opposition.

[Craig 6682]

 

[Rayvin 5223]

21 minutes ago, ewerk said:

A not very long read on the decline of the UK. 

 

 

 

Sorry to double quote you but this article actually does give me a bit of hope. The scale of the betrayal of older generations of the younger that is clear within this is at some point in the hopefully very near future, surely, going to result in not just a swing to Labour for a single election victory, but a full scale swing back towards internationalism and collective engagement. It seems our lot in life is to endure this so our children may repair it, but this fully demonstrates the extent to which we have just walked into the mother of all national dead ends.

 

It can't last, there will be some manner of reckoning in the end. The only shame will be that those who induced it won't live to see it.

[Renton 21627]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Sorry to double quote you but this article actually does give me a bit of hope. The scale of the betrayal of older generations of the younger that is clear within this is at some point in the hopefully very near future, surely, going to result in not just a swing to Labour for a single election victory, but a full scale swing back towards internationalism and collective engagement. It seems our lot in life is to endure this so our children may repair it, but this fully demonstrates the extent to which we have just walked into the mother of all national dead ends.

 

It can't last, there will be some manner of reckoning in the end. The only shame will be that those who induced it won't live to see it.

 

That's more the spirit! I'll have a read tonight. 

[Rayvin 5223]

Just now, Renton said:

 

That's more the spirit! I'll have a read tonight. 

 

I'll stress the article just paints a picture of the despair of the current reality, it's me that's saying it can't possibly be sustainable  

[Toonpack 9423]

10 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I'll stress the article just paints a picture of the despair of the current reality, it's me that's saying it can't possibly be sustainable  

 

Sustainable doesn't enter into it sadly, that requires a level of logic/rational thought to be applied. The elephant in the room will never be acknowledged, we will decline further and further, it will ALWAYS be someone else's fault, brown people in boats or tofu eaters or something they haven't made up yet.

[Rayvin 5223]

3 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

 

Sustainable doesn't enter into it sadly, that requires a level of logic/rational thought to be applied. The elephant in the room will never be acknowledged, we will decline further and further, it will ALWAYS be someone else's fault, brown people in boats or tofu eaters or something they haven't made up yet.

 

I don't disagree with that hugely tbh, but what has given me some optimism is the reminder that most people who were working age did not vote Tory. If those people continue to work harder and harder for less and less then I don't know, eventually something has to give. That something could be full on fascism though, you're right  

[Renton 21627]

Underwhelmed by that article. Tell me something I don't know. It also irks me why people seem to think finance is the only exportable service we have. I work in a huge industry related to pharma which the UK is incredibly successful at - for now at least. It won't survive long-term without investment ineducation and skills. 

[Craig 6682]

 

[Holden McGroin 6587]

I like Cooper. Someone mentioned she was similar to Starmer earlier but she is far better public speaker than Mr Monotone.

[Rayvin 5223]

19 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

I like Cooper. Someone mentioned she was similar to Starmer earlier but she is far better public speaker than Mr Monotone.

 

I also think this. She was going to be my pick for Labour leader before Corbyn came along and seduced me with his socialist wiles. On balance of where we are now, I regret that choice - that said maybe it's for the best in some ways since if she had been leader, she likely still would have lost in 2019 and then she'd have been a busted flush. I think she'll be leader after Starmer now.

[Craig 6682]

12 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I also think this. She was going to be my pick for Labour leader before Corbyn came along and seduced me with his socialist wiles. On balance of where we are now, I regret that choice - that said maybe it's for the best in some ways since if she had been leader, she likely still would have lost in 2019 and then she'd have been a busted flush. I think she'll be leader after Starmer now.

 

Streeting or Nandy are decent shouts for next leader also. 

Personally I hope they find a seat Andy Burnham can contest at the next GE election with a view that he'll become a future leader.

[Craig 6682]

[Craig 6682]

The Braverman fiasco is all smoke and mirrors so that travesties like this are slipped in under the radar. 

 

 

[Alex 35083]

That’s a good point. If I even reveal my level of clearance to someone outside the civil service it’s technically a breach of security. But actions you take when you hold a certain level of clearance which, in effect, change the circumstances potentially impact whether that clearance should be withdrawn. A change in something like your financial circumstances for example. However, if you actually breach the conditions of your clearance and get caught then, as well as disciplinary action your clearance could be deemed null and void. I mean it’s a technicality really, given she’s publicly admitted fucking up before getting sacked and then being reinstated in less than a week 

[Alex 35083]

2 minutes ago, Craig said:

The Braverman fiasco is all smoke and mirrors so that travesties like this are slipped in under the radar. 

 

 

They aren’t that clever. They’d be pushing through stuff like this with little coverage anyway. 

[PaddockLad 17275]

I think there could be further shit on Braverman in the Sunday papers. It will look fuckin appalling for Sunak and the tories in general if she has to leave cabinet twice in a month. Good. He & they appear to have learned nothing . 

[Craig 6682]

I honestly don't see the Braverman issue going away until someone else is running the Home Office. I get what you're saying Alex about them not being that clever, but they ain't that stupid either. There's no way he appointed Braverman, WIlliamson & Jenrick totally oblivious to the idea it'd cause a shitstorm. 

[Alex 35083]

8 minutes ago, Craig said:

I honestly don't see the Braverman issue going away until someone else is running the Home Office. I get what you're saying Alex about them not being that clever, but they ain't that stupid either. There's no way he appointed Braverman, WIlliamson & Jenrick totally oblivious to the idea it'd cause a shitstorm. 

I think it’s a case of thinking he was doing the right thing by trying to appeal to various parts of the party. They’re such a talentless bunch of self-serving half-wits though that there aren’t really any ‘right’ choices. That said those appear really bad ones. I do take your point but any master strategist would not want the job at present under these circumstances anyway though. Like his predecessor I think his personal ambition is so great he can’t really see far enough beyond that. Not that I think he’s in Truss’s league in terms of stupidity. Braverman, on the other hand…

Edited October 26, 2022 by Alex

[Alex 35083]

18 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

I think there could be further shit on Braverman in the Sunday papers. It will look fuckin appalling for Sunak and the tories in general if she has to leave cabinet twice in a month. Good. He & they appear to have learned nothing . 

I think you’re right. It’s explosive now as well. Partygate was relatively trivial to many because that was before the cost of living crisis came into sharp focus. Funny how interested people become in politics when it’s hammered home to them that it impacts their lives 

[Gemmill 44894]

 

 

[Craig 6682]

She's a fucking liability and CANNOT remain in office. I read a succinct tweet earlier that simply said "you cannot have national security headed up by somone who has knowingly and deliberately been in breach of national security."

[NJS 4386]

It shouldn't really need to be said but the myriad of offences committed by Johnson and all of his appointees would lead to being sacked and prohibited from working in the same industry/business in the vast majority of other workplaces. 

[Craig 6682]

3 minutes ago, NJS said:

It shouldn't really need to be said but the myriad of offences committed by Johnson and all of his appointees would lead to being sacked and prohibited from working in the same industry/business in the vast majority of other workplaces. 

 

And up until recent times, within the walls of parliament too. I know the morality of politicians has always left a lot to be desired but honestly, this post-2016 bunch are on a whole new fucking level. Zero professionalism, zero accountability and zero integrity. 36 hours in and PM Sunak is already a fucking fraud.

[Craig 6682]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

 

 

 

 

You get a real sense that Cooper isn't got to let this one go until she's removed from office.