Politics

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I have no real party partizan views myself other than there would have to be some sort of accident involving a head injury for me to vote Tory (or, for example, if my only voting options were Tory or some even worse right wing Cath words like the BNP etc).

 

Just on the Lib Dems, I've always quite liked them as a party and floated between them and Labour in votes, especially when it comes to the local council. I think they've royally fucked up though by joining the Tories. They could have sat back and let both sides fuck up, Tories getting the blame for austerity, Labour getting the blame for the recession, and next election they could have steamed in there and really been a force. Hoodwinked by the Tories, and now really unpopular because of it. Shame really.

[Happy Face 29]

TBH I really can't stand any sort of party politics.

 

As far as I'm concerned whoever is in power is 'them' and it's us against them on the vast majority of subjects.

 

Very little of what any government do should be uncritically welcomed.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

power corrupts the lot of them. it happened to blair; it happened to clegg. agree with SLP - clegg has royally fucked up his career and his party. i wonder whether he can sleep at night. i'm ashamed to have voted for them last time. only did it as a protest vote. plus they were the only ones that said they wouldn't invest billions in a completely pointless nuclear weapons system we don't need. shame they rolled over on that one, as well as more or less everything else in their manifesto, as soon as they got into power.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

more Tory infighting.

 

[BigWalrus 0]

As someone who works in amongst lots of different businesses, banks are still very much lending money (after all, that's how they make money).

 

They're just being more consistently stringent with their terms than in the past. Previously, banks would, every now and again, let a business have a loan on very favourable terms, without really doing their sums. Now they're relying on covenants which are not only realistic but also fair - balancing the safety of the bank's funding against the level of risk needed to allow a business to operate profitably.

 

The issues will arise at the lower end of the scale with smaller businesses, as many don't have the assets to secure a loan against. Whereas 5 years ago, they'd have a history of making profits that didn't appear to have any ceiling, they now have a history of tough times and the borrowing is seen as more and more risky. Can't really argue with the stance the banks are taking really. They're assessing each loan on a case by case basis and all but those with their fingers in their ears would admit that the environment is occupied by a hell of a lot more risk right now than 5 years ago.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

You've missed my point, which released to the OBR telling Cameron austerity is a major reason for our lack of growth.

 

No they didn't . They said this....

 

Mr Chote makes clear that the OBR thinks the Eurozone and high energy prices have probably played the major role in growth turning out to be so feeble, not the planned austerity measures.

[Toonpack 9399]

Did you get sound to watching that Andrew Marr documentary I told you about (prior to his stroke, obviously). There's still plenty of scope for the UK to lead the way on cutting edge technologies and services. To deny this is defeatist and frankly idiotic, even Cameron knows this.

 

Aye that's a mass employment winner, which also when delivered replaces even more folks with even cleverer technology.

 

25 years ago I ran a department of 36 folks, within 3 years that number was down to 15, producing the same volume of work quicker/better simply by the adoption of rudimentary technology (which it was really rudimentary in those days, pre windows and a PC on everyone's desk). There were thirteen similar departments throughout the country, two years later that was all centralised and the whole UK operation was run with less than the 36 I originally had.

 

When you need to provide bums on seats, or hands on work, the UK "worker" cannot compete and technology itself drives down the need for bums on seats/hands on in the first place.

 

That's the root of the problem not some left/right airy fairy bollocks and I certainly don't know what the answer is.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Toonpack

[Meenzer 15525]

The issues will arise at the lower end of the scale with smaller businesses, as many don't have the assets to secure a loan against. Whereas 5 years ago, they'd have a history of making profits that didn't appear to have any ceiling, they now have a history of tough times and the borrowing is seen as more and more risky. Can't really argue with the stance the banks are taking really. They're assessing each loan on a case by case basis and all but those with their fingers in their ears would admit that the environment is occupied by a hell of a lot more risk right now than 5 years ago.

 

Wonder if peer-to-peer lending will take off properly as a result.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

Northern Rock was nationalised on the back of a subprime crisis, surely the government should push for regulation against that sort of thing, if only to protect it's customers.

 

I think it's underway making sure banks have to have so much capital and that the retail side is separate to the investment (gambling side).

[Happy Face 29]

No they didn't . They said this....

 

Mr Chote makes clear that the OBR thinks the Eurozone and high energy prices have probably played the major role in growth turning out to be so feeble, not the planned austerity measures.

 

 

The whole point of the letter was to rebuke Cameron for blaming ONLY those factors, when they were clear that austerity has been responsible for GDP dropping.

 

From THE SAME ARTICLE YOU HAVE QUOTED....

 

In fact, as he explains in his letter, the OBR forecasts have always built in a negative impact on growth from the austerity measures. So have all the other UK forecasts out there, from City economists and the likes of the International Monetary Fund.

[Renton 21620]

 

 

No they didn't . They said this....

 

Mr Chote makes clear that the OBR thinks the Eurozone and high energy prices have probably played the major role in growth turning out to be so feeble, not the planned austerity measures.

 

Fuck me, type 'OBR Cameron' into Google and take your pick of headline news reports. You twist things mire than Cameron does.

[Gemmill 44864]

I love all of Renton's typos from posting on his phone. His posts read like the copper off 'Allo 'Allo is typing them.

[Meenzer 15525]

I love all of Renton's typos from posting on his phone. His posts read like the copper off 'Allo 'Allo is typing them.

 

The economy is pissing the pint of no return.

[Renton 21620]

 

 

Aye that's a mass employment winner, which also when delivered replaces even more folks with even cleverer technology.

 

25 years ago I ran a department of 36 folks, within 3 years that number was down to 15, producing the same volume of work quicker/better simply by the adoption of rudimentary technology (which it was really rudimentary in those days, pre windows and a PC on everyone's desk). There were thirteen similar departments throughout the country, two years later that was all centralised and the whole UK operation was run with less than the 36 I originally had.

 

When you need to provide bums on seats, or hands on work, the UK "worker" cannot compete and technology itself drives down the need for bums on seats/hands on in the first place.

 

That's the root of the problem not some left/right airy fairy bollocks and I certainly don't know what the answer is.

 

They said that when the spinning Jenny was invented too. Please spare me your anecdotes, they're not meaningful.

[Renton 21620]

I love all of Renton's typos from posting on his phone. His posts read like the copper off 'Allo 'Allo is typing them.

 

I like Swype but fuck me is it inaccurate (fat fingers). Would love to use a keyboard occasionally.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

As someone who works in amongst lots of different businesses, banks are still very much lending money (after all, that's how they make money).

 

They're just being more consistently stringent with their terms than in the past. Previously, banks would, every now and again, let a business have a loan on very favourable terms, without really doing their sums. Now they're relying on covenants which are not only realistic but also fair - balancing the safety of the bank's funding against the level of risk needed to allow a business to operate profitably.

 

The issues will arise at the lower end of the scale with smaller businesses, as many don't have the assets to secure a loan against. Whereas 5 years ago, they'd have a history of making profits that didn't appear to have any ceiling, they now have a history of tough times and the borrowing is seen as more and more risky. Can't really argue with the stance the banks are taking really. They're assessing each loan on a case by case basis and all but those with their fingers in their ears would admit that the environment is occupied by a hell of a lot more risk right now than 5 years ago.

 

Banks are lend at a ting percentage now compared to pre crash. That's a fact and is extremely well documented.

 

Secondly, there is no great need for this over cautious approach. UK Retail banking, (loans mortgages etc) didn't cause the crash.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

Wonder if peer-to-peer lending will take off properly as a result.

 

Let's see. Any chance of £50 til the weekend?

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

 

The whole point of the letter was to rebuke Cameron for blaming ONLY those factors, when they were clear that austerity has been responsible for GDP dropping.

 

From THE SAME ARTICLE YOU HAVE QUOTED....

 

I was correcting Rentons misrepresentation of the OBR when HE used the word Major

[Christmas Tree 4725]

I love all of Renton's typos from posting on his phone. His posts read like the copper off 'Allo 'Allo is typing them.

 

Stop it!

 

[BigWalrus 0]

Banks are lend at a ting percentage now compared to pre crash. That's a fact and is extremely well documented.

 

Secondly, there is no great need for this over cautious approach. UK Retail banking, (loans mortgages etc) didn't cause the crash.

 

You're making points completely separate from mine! I haven't said that lending is consistent with pre-crash. What I'm saying is that the lending is on consistent terms, but that there is now a lot more risk attached to lending. Companies are not generating the cash that they were pre-recession and can't be relied upon to continue to pay their loans.

 

Banks aren't responsible for growing the economy - they're responsible for generating profits for their shareholders.

 

There is definitely a need for the cautious approach to lending. UK Retail Banking may not have caused the crash, but it most certainly isn't immune to its effects.

[Happy Face 29]

I was correcting Rentons misrepresentation of the OBR when HE used the word Major

 

So austerity is only making things worse, it's not the main reason.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Not too sure why Theresa May thinks she's the next Margeret Thatcher all of a sudden. Always struck me as an awful politician.

 

You do get the feeling that they are on the verge of self destructing, which seems madness given the candidates who are available to take over.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

So austerity is only making things worse, it's not the main reason.

 

Moving on from Rentongate, I think austerity itself, is having very little effect on the UK economy. I don't think anyone is particularly saying anything much different if you cut through the various spin.

 

The serious people talking about a plan B are talking more about borrowing and spending to stimulate growth. As we've discussed before, we probably would see some growth, it's more a case whether that works as kick start or a temporary bubble.

 

That is the million dollar question.

 

I'm of the view that with banks hardly lending, a depressed world economy, a very unstable Eurozone and with little scope for new mass employment then it would be a bubble and not a fix.

 

Of course all parties will kick this around for years to come, each scoring short term goals while very little changes.

 

It should really be taken out of their hands.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Just came across this and had to laugh....,

 

"It is a minority in my view but it hacks people off and I understand why it hacks people off because they say, look, I'm working all the hours God sends, I'm working 50/60 hours a week... and I'm struggling to make ends meet and I feel the person next door isn't doing their bit."

 

 

.....,,,,

 

 

Sounds ver familiar doesn't it?

 

Guess who said it?

 

Politicians man

 

 

 

Red Ed Fucking Milliband is the correct answer.

 

All that mocking the Tories for neighbours in bed etc....

 

Unbelievable.

[NJS 4379]

Austerity has sucked all the demand out of the economy which is why businesses are struggling which means they have no money to expand which means less new jobs which means less demand.

 

This doesnt mean I think everybody should get a new credit card btw I'm talking about every day stuff crushed by no pay rises and less income.

 

To say it's having little effect is madness.