Politics

[Happy Face 29]

Fitch are trying to regain their reputation after quite rightly being called to book for being full of shit during the crunch - I wouldn't trust them to count to 10.

 

Why the fuck are we taking macro economic advice from a bunch of fucking risk assessors in the fucking first place?

 

Would they be the same risk assessors who looked at risky sub-prime mortgages that had been lumped together and had no clue what the risk was so just gave them a thumbs up and slapped a triple A sticker on them to keep the financial industry happy?

Edited June 8, 2010 by Happy Face

[Renton 21976]

Good performance by George at the dispatch box.

 

Adequate.

 

Saw a bit on telly and thought he was his usual smug gloating self tbh. Completely dodged the question about whether it was right to save NR, recapitalise the banks, and provide fiscal stimulus during the crisis as well. Funnily enough, you have never answered this either. Clue - the answer is yes. Also used some very odd stats to suggest unemployment was worse here than in Europe - basically bare-faced lies tbh (Google the stats if you don't believe me).

 

Interestingly enough said he would protect the provinces from the worst of the public sector cuts which would be nice if true but I don't believe him as it contradicts what Cameron said. We'll see I guess. Did get me thinking though that in a way we only have ourselves to blame in the North East by rejecting the chance to have a regional assembly. We simply won't have the representation that Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland have and I blame that on the people who voted No. Big mistake imo.

[ChezGiven 0]

Fitch are trying to regain their reputation after quite rightly being called to book for being full of shit during the crunch - I wouldn't trust them to count to 10.

 

Why the fuck are we taking macro economic advice from a bunch of fucking risk assessors in the fucking first place?

 

Would they be the same risk assessors who looked at risky sub-prime mortgages that had been lumped together and had no clue what the risk was so just gave them a thumbs up and slapped a triple A sticker on them to keep the financial industry happy?

 

I would laugh it if was even remotely funny.

[peasepud 59]

Means testing child benefit sounds like a good idea (and I would welcome the exposure of the Mail twats who call anyone on benefits scum but don't mind pocketing it) but I've read that the cost of means testing would be greater than the money saved.

 

but we are already means testing them for child tax credit!

 

Just do away with child benefit all together and add it to the tax credit system.

 

This.

 

as someone who has fairly recently started receiving both I can wholeheartedly agree with the concept of doing away with one or the other. The stupid thing was that to claim child benefit we had to fill in a 12 page form, tax credits was 10 pages long yet the latter is means tested and the 1st goes to anyone. Merge the forms at least. Have one form which claims both.

 

Means testing Child Benefit is also something Id agree with but rather than really drop it down make it something like 60 or 70k just to weed out those that really dont need it. I know its a godsend to us, especially in the first year when one of you isnt working.

 

As an aside, Ive just spent the day in a treasury building at Horse Guards, theres an easy way to save £6bn this year and thats to sell off those buildings, huge ornate place, massive rooms, antiquities all over the place, it makes a mockery of the whole austerity plans tbh

[Kevin 1]

[Christmas Tree 4817]

 

 

Fok

[Kevin 1]

 

 

Fok

Sorry im not trying to derail the thread, i was just posting that to try and save it. sorry.

[NJS 4411]

As an aside, Ive just spent the day in a treasury building at Horse Guards, theres an easy way to save £6bn this year and thats to sell off those buildings, huge ornate place, massive rooms, antiquities all over the place, it makes a mockery of the whole austerity plans tbh

 

One of the first times I went to London for a match when I was about 17 I ended up walking from Regent St and towards the Palace and I couldn't help thinking how good it would be to go back in time and ship the workers who paid for it all down there to see the wealth so we could have a French style revolution. Trouble is the peasants in this country have been too beaten down by the whole monarchy/aristocracy bullshit (which is of course is its entire purpose).

[Christmas Tree 4817]

As an aside, Ive just spent the day in a treasury building at Horse Guards, theres an easy way to save £6bn this year and thats to sell off those buildings, huge ornate place, massive rooms, antiquities all over the place, it makes a mockery of the whole austerity plans tbh

 

One of the first times I went to London for a match when I was about 17 I ended up walking from Regent St and towards the Palace and I couldn't help thinking how good it would be to go back in time and ship the workers who paid for it all down there to see the wealth so we could have a French style revolution. Trouble is the peasants in this country have been too beaten down by the whole monarchy/aristocracy bullshit (which is of course is its entire purpose).

 

;)

 

Fuck me you must be a right trotsky or summit

 

17 in London for your first toon match and your thinking about the down trodden workers from up north.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Christmas Tree

[NJS 4411]

As an aside, Ive just spent the day in a treasury building at Horse Guards, theres an easy way to save £6bn this year and thats to sell off those buildings, huge ornate place, massive rooms, antiquities all over the place, it makes a mockery of the whole austerity plans tbh

 

One of the first times I went to London for a match when I was about 17 I ended up walking from Regent St and towards the Palace and I couldn't help thinking how good it would be to go back in time and ship the workers who paid for it all down there to see the wealth so we could have a French style revolution. Trouble is the peasants in this country have been too beaten down by the whole monarchy/aristocracy bullshit (which is of course is its entire purpose).

 

;)

 

Fuck me you must be a right trotsky or summit

 

17 in London for your first toon match and your thinking about the down trodden workers from up north.

 

One of the first - it was an overnight job, wandering the streets after the market pubs shut and before the normal ones opened.

 

Have I not mentioned my desire to see the first one thousand people in line to the throne executed before?

 

(Now a named list of 1454 thanks to Wikipedia).

[Christmas Tree 4817]

As an aside, Ive just spent the day in a treasury building at Horse Guards, theres an easy way to save £6bn this year and thats to sell off those buildings, huge ornate place, massive rooms, antiquities all over the place, it makes a mockery of the whole austerity plans tbh

 

One of the first times I went to London for a match when I was about 17 I ended up walking from Regent St and towards the Palace and I couldn't help thinking how good it would be to go back in time and ship the workers who paid for it all down there to see the wealth so we could have a French style revolution. Trouble is the peasants in this country have been too beaten down by the whole monarchy/aristocracy bullshit (which is of course is its entire purpose).

 

;)

 

Fuck me you must be a right trotsky or summit

 

17 in London for your first toon match and your thinking about the down trodden workers from up north.

 

One of the first - it was an overnight job, wandering the streets after the market pubs shut and before the normal ones opened.

 

Have I not mentioned my desire to see the first one thousand people in line to the throne executed before?

 

(Now a named list of 1454 thanks to Wikipedia).

 

[ChezGiven 0]

Economics editor of Newsnight just said in his opinion the cuts will cause a double-dip recession.

[AgentAxeman 189]

Economics editor of Newsnight just said in his opinion the cuts will cause a double-dip recession.

 

 

chez, thats one person against the governments of many nations who are trying to implement this plan atm. not saying he isnt wrong like. just that the consensus is against him.

 

maybe the phrase 'sex sells' is pertinant here.

[Craig 6700]

Ex-minister Lord Myners attacks Labour economic record

 

Former Labour minister Lord Myners has criticised former colleagues' "flawed thinking" on the economy and called for a crackdown on spending "waste".

 

The ex-City minister said there was "nothing progressive" about a government that had ran up huge debt that would impact on later generations.

 

He had witnessed "considerable waste in public expenditure", which could be reduced, he told the House of Lords.

 

The government said it was "the latest blow to Labour's economic argument".

 

Lord Myners, who was made a working peer and drafted into the Labour government in 2008, told the Lords: "I found it very frustrating to sit in meetings with some of my fellow ministers talking about creating jobs in the green economy, creating jobs in biotechnology.

 

"The government can't create jobs. The government can create the environment which is conducive to the creation of jobs, but it cannot create jobs and we mislead ourselves if we believe it can."

 

He added: "There is nothing progressive about a government that consistently spends more than it can raise in taxation and certainly nothing progressive that endows generations to come with the liabilities incurred with respect to the current generation."

 

Lord Myners said considerable spending cuts were needed to lower the public debt, but "considerable waste in public expenditure" should also be tackled.

 

"I have seen that in my own experience as a government minister and I hope that the government will pursue with vigilance its search for waste and search for efficiencies without cuts which are injurious to the provision of public service."

 

Current City minister Mark Hoban said his predecessor had "let the cat out of the bag and admitted what we have been arguing all along".

 

Mr Hoban said: "This is yet another shocking indictment of the previous government's record and the legacy it has left behind that we are now having to deal with.

 

"This is just the latest blow to Labour's economic argument."

 

Labour argues against cuts in spending this financial year, suggesting it could jeopardise the fragile economic recovery.

 

It argues that, while in government, had it not used public spending to support the economy during the recession, the country would have been at risk of falling into a depression.

 

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10270585.stm

[Christmas Tree 4817]

Economics editor of Newsnight just said in his opinion the cuts will cause a double-dip recession.

 

 

Guess thats why he only works for Newsnight

[Christmas Tree 4817]

Economics editor of Newsnight just said in his opinion the cuts will cause a double-dip recession.

 

 

Seriously, I think the leaders have looked at 3 possible scenarious.

 

1. The economy will grow sufficiently to wipe out the defecit over the next five years. Keep pumping money in and it will come right.

 

2. The economy is only going to bump along for the next five years with miniscule growth so extra money pumped in will make little difference other than vastly increasing the debt. Even bigger cuts and tax rises will be needed then.

 

3. Tax and cut now and gamble that it will work out with less pain than option 2.

 

 

I think (as will probably be announced next Monday), they have ruled out option 1 and see option 3 as the lesser of two evils.

 

Hows my economist training going btw

[Renton 21976]

Economics editor of Newsnight just said in his opinion the cuts will cause a double-dip recession.

 

 

Seriously, I think the leaders have looked at 3 possible scenarious.

 

1. The economy will grow sufficiently to wipe out the defecit over the next five years. Keep pumping money in and it will come right.

 

2. The economy is only going to bump along for the next five years with miniscule growth so extra money pumped in will make little difference other than vastly increasing the debt. Even bigger cuts and tax rises will be needed then.

 

3. Tax and cut now and gamble that it will work out with less pain than option 2.

 

 

I think (as will probably be announced next Monday), they have ruled out option 1 and see option 3 as the lesser of two evils.

 

Hows my economist training going btw

 

But those three options aren't independent of each other are they? Meaning if you cut back too much now you run the risk of halting, or even reversing, growth, which will lead to more pain overall. It's a question of balance and whether you are confident the tories can get it right.

 

I've asked you several times now on your opinion of their policies during the crash itself and you seem unwilling, or unable, to give an answer (re: letting NR go to the wall, recapitalising the banks, and providing fiscal stimulus). If we can agree, along with most analysts, that their policies during that time would have been catastrophic, how confident does that make you of the tory decision making machine now?

[spongebob toonpants 4123]

 

cheese face and crackers

[Dr Gloom 22135]

the obvious danger with making the cuts too quickly now is the fragiel state of the global economy. canada got away with it in the 90s because it had a booming us economy to support it during rh e clinton era. likewise with sweden making quick cuts in the 90s when europe was buzzing. obviously that isn't the case now.

 

the cuts clearly have to be made but there is a clear danger of cutting to much, too quickly. it's going to be a difficult balancing act to avoid a double dip recession.

[Guest alex]

Economics editor of Newsnight just said in his opinion the cuts will cause a double-dip recession.

Good news is they'll probably get kicked out of government next time round if that happens. Every cloud...

[Renton 21976]

 

cheese face and crackers

 

That picture sends shudders down my spine. Still, she looks much like the Wicked Witch of the West did when she was melting at the end of Wizard of Oz.

[Christmas Tree 4817]

the obvious danger with making the cuts too quickly now is the fragiel state of the global economy. canada got away with it in the 90s because it had a booming us economy to support it during rh e clinton era. likewise with sweden making quick cuts in the 90s when europe was buzzing. obviously that isn't the case now.

 

the cuts clearly have to be made but there is a clear danger of cutting to much, too quickly. it's going to be a difficult balancing act to avoid a double dip recession.

 

The more I read and learn about this I think this may be pretty unavoidable and theirgambling not so much on avoiding it, but rather of getting in and out of it within 4 years so the last year before election they can say " see, the pain was worth it, everythings rosy, vote for us".

[Renton 21976]

the obvious danger with making the cuts too quickly now is the fragiel state of the global economy. canada got away with it in the 90s because it had a booming us economy to support it during rh e clinton era. likewise with sweden making quick cuts in the 90s when europe was buzzing. obviously that isn't the case now.

 

the cuts clearly have to be made but there is a clear danger of cutting to much, too quickly. it's going to be a difficult balancing act to avoid a double dip recession.

 

The more I read and learn about this I think this may be pretty unavoidable and theirgambling not so much on avoiding it, but rather of getting in and out of it within 4 years so the last year before election they can say " see, the pain was worth it, everythings rosy, vote for us".

 

I can't see how that would ever be a desirable situation, it's one that should be avoided at any cost, as it would delay growth, and therefore delay the reduction of the deficit, the very thing they want to avoid? More unemployed = less tax revenue + more money on benefits = more deficit.

 

Am I missing something here?

[NJS 4411]

Theres an article in the Guardian this morning which I agree with which would give LM an instant stroke - a suggestion that if Osbourne want's to talk about "once in a lifetime" changes then why not completely cut the defence budget - ie to zero.

 

£45bn per year.

[Renton 21976]

Theres an article in the Guardian this morning which I agree with which would give LM an instant stroke - a suggestion that if Osbourne want's to talk about "once in a lifetime" changes then why not completely cut the defence budget - ie to zero.

 

£45bn per year.

 

A complete cut in the defence budget is unfeasible, but I'd withdraw from all Afghanistan and not get involved in any future conflicts wherever possible immediately. That, or education and health. Not a difficult decision for me.