Politics

[Isegrim 9780]

 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

 

Yeah it was AV. I don't remember much about it but it would have been a big improvement compared to full FTP. Think the main argument against it was that FTP leads to stable governments .

 

Labour need PR now, and it would also diffuse Scottish independence imo. But they're shit scared of the bigger picture.

We’ve got AV in Scottish elections. 

[Rayvin 5223]

6 hours ago, Renton said:

 

I really, really hope this is the start of something but too jaded to believe it is. If labour really adopted this as a manifesto pledge, I'd rejoin and maybe become active again. 

 

Same. Its the only condition I'd rejoin for but I would do so willingly.

[Gemmill 44900]

 

 

[Gemmill 44900]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

Think Geidt deserves some credit for this.

 

 

 

 

Fuck that. He delayed his resignation in the first place in a way that benefited Johnson, his resignation letter was bizarrely written in a way that helped Johnson frame it to his advantage, and then two days later this attempt to salvage his own reputation emerges quietly on a Friday afternoon. 

 

He deserves nothing but contempt. 

[RobinRobin 11282]

9 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

Put this in here due to Patel’s decision…. I’ve always been a bit ambivalent about Assange but Oborne nails it… his colleagues appear to be sniffy about him because in their eyes he’s “not a real journalist” iyam 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/17/britain-julian-assange-extradition-priti-patel-us?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

 

Conflicted about this. IMHO he isn't a journalist. At best he is a whistleblower. Whistleblowers should be protected generally if what they do is motivated by public interest. Not sure he's anything other than self interested. At heart he's a hacker and while what he manipulated Chelsey Manning into providing was of public interest I doubt that was why he did it. There was clearly no journalistic content. 

I also won't have the argument that he has been "imprisoned" for years. He chose to avoid going to face sexually assault charges by skipping bail. Whatever the reason for that two women didn't get the chance to have their complaints heard.

Again, IMHO he is a narcissist and if I never hear about him again it will be too soon. 🙂 

[PaddockLad 17281]

2 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

Conflicted about this. IMHO he isn't a journalist. At best he is a whistleblower. Whistleblowers should be protected generally if what they do is motivated by public interest. Not sure he's anything other than self interested. At heart he's a hacker and while what he manipulated Chelsey Manning into providing was of public interest I doubt that was why he did it. There was clearly no journalistic content. 

I also won't have the argument that he has been "imprisoned" for years. He chose to avoid going to face sexually assault charges by skipping bail. Whatever the reason for that two women didn't get the chance to have their complaints heard.

Again, IMHO he is a narcissist and if I never hear about him again it will be too soon. 🙂 

Don’t disagree with much of that but we’re living in strange times… we don’t have to think his motives were noble and decent to recognise that in the digital age

this is the way investigative journalism will often be done. The way he delivered his data was his downfall…. If he’d been taken the data to the Guardian or the NY Times he’d been hailed a hero as much as Chelsea Manning is…. and Hilary’s emails would very likely been withheld , meaning we might not have got Trump …

[Rayvin 5223]

I think he's probably a Kremlin asset on balance of information, a witting one or otherwise. That said, he made some important contributions to showcasing US war crimes that you would hope will have resulted in some serious policy changes in their military and perhaps fewer instances of such things in future. That's positive. Not sure he should be going down for that. 

 

I also think he's wasted 8 years of his life in voluntary prison in the hope of avoiding a lesser sentence in the US. Could be proven wrong there but I doubt he's going away for the rest of his life.

 

Should have just faced the music IMO, wasted a lot of his credibility and sanity trying to avoid it.

[Alex 35095]

Him and Snowden are both Russian stooges. Or worse 

[Rayvin 5223]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/17/keir-starmer-boris-johnson-lie-personality-politics?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

Hyde on Starmer. Hard to argue the view.

[Renton 21627]

Not sure I agree. Bad timing maybe, but Starmer was excellent in PMQ this week, calling Johnson Jabba the Hutt. As for policy, its too early to release it and I think its a better strategy to sit back and let the tories rip themselves apart. They have a baseline support which they will never lose no matter what Johnson does. They're canny near that already. Labour need to keep their powder dry until it really matters.

 

Plus I think people really will want competent boring when it comes down to it. Happened in the US last time. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Renton

[Rayvin 5223]

I still believe that "anything but Trump" won in the US. That might work here but it doesn't fix the issue. We need to stop being short termist and actually start working towards a vision. Starmer might win next time on an "anything but Johnson" ticket but Labour really needs to buck it's ideas up on where it thinks society needs to go. We need 10-20 year plans to entrench progress and a concept of what society should look like. This should be proudly stated.

 

I wish we would stop running scared of what we believe in.

[Isegrim 9780]

 

[spongebob toonpants 3997]

3 hours ago, Rayvin said:

I still believe that "anything but Trump" won in the US. That might work here but it doesn't fix the issue. We need to stop being short termist and actually start working towards a vision. Starmer might win next time on an "anything but Johnson" ticket but Labour really needs to buck it's ideas up on where it thinks society needs to go. We need 10-20 year plans to entrench progress and a concept of what society should look like. This should be proudly stated.

 

I wish we would stop running scared of what we believe in.

Until somebody somewhere starts being honest about Brexit the country will stay utterly fucked

[PaddockLad 17281]

2 hours ago, Isegrim said:

 

My old man was there 56-58 on national service…think he’d agree the young lady here . It was basically Vietnam but with G & T’s in the officers mess

[wykikitoon 20165]

PMQs is highlighted there. One ponce silver spooned cunt calling another silver silver spooned cunt names instead of getting on with sorting a shit hole of a country we live in. 

 

It's nothing but play acting to these cunts. Even worse when it's a shit sci. Fi movie

[NJS 4386]

You can add Kenya and of course Northern Ireland to the list of post World War 2 British imperial cuntishness. 

[ewerk 30620]

37 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

PMQs is highlighted there. One ponce silver spooned cunt calling another silver silver spooned cunt names instead of getting on with sorting a shit hole of a country we live in. 

Where did Starmer get his silver spoon?

[wykikitoon 20165]

34 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Where did Starmer get his silver spoon?

I do apologise I am sure I heard / read he went to a high class school because of his parents. Didn't realize they were in 'normal' jobs.

 

Rodney too 😂🤣

[Howmanheyman 33246]

41 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Where did Starmer get his silver spoon?

From his drawer with the rest of his cutlery.

[ewerk 30620]

 

The Daily Mail were offered this story but passed. The Times published it then deleted it online. This country’s print media is an embarrassment.

[Renton 21627]

1 hour ago, wykikitoon said:

I do apologise I am sure I heard / read he went to a high class school because of his parents. Didn't realize they were in 'normal' jobs.

 

Rodney too 😂🤣

 

See this has been a problem, people assume Keir Starmer was privileged when in fact he had a working/lower middle class upbringing, his Dad being a tool maker and his mother a nurse. He went to Leeds Uni, and worked his way up to be head of the CPS. To me, this is quite an inspirational story, especially contrasted with Johnson who has achieved nothing that wasn't given to him. 

 

A lot of people are even ignorant he was named after Keir Hardy, or who he was. My Dad was called Rodney BTW, he cam from Chirton in North Shields to hard core internationalist socialists. They were massively into esperanto and such. Apparently he was named after the battleship which I never fully understood as they were pacifists!

[Alex 35095]

4 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

My old man was there 56-58 on national service…think he’d agree the young lady here . It was basically Vietnam but with G & T’s in the officers mess

It’s this complete ignorance of our own history which leads to English exceptionalism. People are so fucking clueless that they think the world hates us because they’re jealous and that they owe us some debt of gratitude. This seems to cut across all classes too. Ironically many are obsessed with history. Or rather a glorious, idealised version of it. 

[wykikitoon 20165]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

See this has been a problem, people assume Keir Starmer was privileged when in fact he had a working/lower middle class upbringing, his Dad being a tool maker and his mother a nurse. He went to Leeds Uni, and worked his way up to be head of the CPS. To me, this is quite an inspirational story, especially contrasted with Johnson who has achieved nothing that wasn't given to him. 

 

A lot of people are even ignorant he was named after Keir Hardy, or who he was. My Dad was called Rodney BTW, he cam from Chirton in North Shields to hard core internationalist socialists. They were massively into esperanto and such. Apparently he was named after the battleship which I never fully understood as they were pacifists!

I knew why he was called Kier. Why don't Labour use this as a tool? 

[Isegrim 9780]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

It’s this complete ignorance of our own history which leads to English exceptionalism. People are so fucking clueless that they think the world hates us because they’re jealous and that they owe us some debt of gratitude. This seems to cut across all classes too. Ironically many are obsessed with history. Or rather a glorious, idealised version of it. 

It is idealism bordering on revisionism tbh.  As you said, it is the glorification of times and events that weren’t as happy as some people make them, at least not if you were on the wrong side or in the wrong class.

But this kind of nostalgia from a happy minority is fed to the public by the likes of certain tabloids and tv stations like the history channel happy to twist or at least ignore historic truths. The newest tool to preserve wrong historical facts is to challenge dissenting views as “woke”.