Politics

[Alex 34954]

The problem is that loads of Labour members think they own the party and their vision of ‘real Labour’ is the only valid one. The other issue being they aren’t getting elected pursuing the policies they’d like to see. 

[Meenzer 15467]

Terrific   🤦‍♀️

 

 

[Alex 34954]

I saw that. Positives to take away from the grassroots support for it though 

[Dr Gloom 21868]

the whole conference is being overshadowed by this nonsense. it's an obvious weakness in labour's defence which the anti-woke mob will try to exploit. how did they not see this coming? 

 

[Alex 34954]

I’m not just saying it because it’s her but Bridget gives a good, considered answer where she doesn’t fall into Hartley-Brewer’s trap. The mistake, imo, is going on her show in the first place. 

[Dr Gloom 21868]

They have to reach people who wouldn't normally vote for them. That's they are prepared to spar with the awful JBH. The party should be better prepared and send them all out with a solid line as it was hardly a curve ball attack from the right wing pundits 

[Tom 14011]

I can’t imagine Labour, or the left will ever win the culture war. 

[NJS 4375]

If you're going to take positions which are more extreme than the tories just to appeal to the intolerant then you might as well go all the way. 

[Blastronaut 1333]

On 25/09/2021 at 15:10, ewerk said:

Letting asylum seekers work? That’ll only encourage them.

 

Bloody immigrants. Not coming over here to take our jobs.

[Alex 34954]

2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

They have to reach people who wouldn't normally vote for them. That's they are prepared to spar with the awful JBH. The party should be better prepared and send them all out with a solid line as it was hardly a curve ball attack from the right wing pundits 

I don’t see anything to be gained from going on her show. You have people having a go at Bridget for the answer she gave because it wasn’t ‘prepared’. JHB just wants a black or white answer to what is a very nuanced debate just to further polarise people. As Tom points out the left aren’t going to win that way and there’s more to be lost than gained by falling into these sorts of traps. I’m not saying go down the Corbyn route of not playing the media game, but going on a right wing cunt’s radio show is just setting yourself up for a fall. It’s not like the listeners who agree with the host are going to vote Labour because they give the ‘right’ answer. Especially if it contradicts what the party leader has just said. 

[Monkeys Fist 42205]

I like that none of them have realised that Starmer just said we’re all cunts. 
 

Man’s smooth. 😉

[Dr Gloom 21868]

7 hours ago, Alex said:

I don’t see anything to be gained from going on her show. You have people having a go at Bridget for the answer she gave because it wasn’t ‘prepared’. JHB just wants a black or white answer to what is a very nuanced debate just to further polarise people. As Tom points out the left aren’t going to win that way and there’s more to be lost than gained by falling into these sorts of traps. I’m not saying go down the Corbyn route of not playing the media game, but going on a right wing cunt’s radio show is just setting yourself up for a fall. It’s not like the listeners who agree with the host are going to vote Labour because they give the ‘right’ answer. Especially if it contradicts what the party leader has just said. 

The problem is that red wall voters - the social conservatives who labour need to win back - will listen to JHB and Ferrari. It’s infuriating that they don’t have the balls to just give an honest answer to her question, which let’s face is it is: only biological women have a cervix (it isn’t transphobic to say that) trans women don’t have a cervix.

Meanwhile, the cult continues to prefer to remain forever in opposition. Instead of using conference to batter a Tory party on the ropes they would rather engage in this sort of thing. The party needs fo split 

 

[ewerk 30409]

Aye, clearly it's Starmer creating the divisions in the Labour party.

[ewerk 30409]

 

Maybe using conference to grandstand and resign at a politically sensitive time might have had something to do with that feeling.

[Alex 34954]

I think it’s been pointed out by a few people that the £10 minimum wage he resigned over is the figure Corbyn proposed in his manifesto. The cultists decrying this are likely the sane ones who were applauding Corbyn for it. I think I hate these people as much as I despise the tories 

[Dr Gloom 21868]

If the party split, would it give the left a better chance of governing or would it split the vote and enable more Tory rule? 

[Dr Gloom 21868]

A breakaway momentum party could mop up the urban quinoa vote while a blairite labour party could reclaim the red wall. It would need an electoral pact and a governing coalition to work, which means both sides would have to act like grown ups, so it probably wouldn’t ever happen. 

[Renton 21451]

28 minutes ago, Alex said:

I think it’s been pointed out by a few people that the £10 minimum wage he resigned over is the figure Corbyn proposed in his manifesto. The cultists decrying this are likely the sane ones who were applauding Corbyn for it. I think I hate these people as much as I despise the tories 

 

The minimum wage comrade McDonald wants is equivalent to £31,200 per annum assuming the job is full time. That's a lot more than the median wage is currently and I would imagine be higher than anywhere else in the world. Now is that really affordable for small businesses with marginal profits and what would the potential unintended consequences of this be, for instance for inflation and for more skilled jobs? I remember when I visited Cuba the taxi drivers were on a better wedge than hospital consultants due to tips they received from westerners like me. Is this desirable? Showing yourself to be economically illiterate is not a good way to get elected. 

[ewerk 30409]

A split definitely hurts Labour. Suddenly there is competition for votes and union money. Not to mention that while those further to the left do a lot of canvassing around election time.

There is room in the Labour party for those on the left but they can't accept that their platform has been rejected by the electorate. Instead of campaigning for certain elements to be retained (which Starmer would certainly be open to) they've decided that it's all or nothing and are more than happy to undermine the leadership and ensure that if they don't get their utopian vision then we're condemned to further Tory rule.

[Alex 34954]

30 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

If the party split, would it give the left a better chance of governing or would it split the vote and enable more Tory rule? 

I think the split is needed but it’ll probably do the latter unless you replace FPTP beforehand. 

[Alex 34954]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

The minimum wage comrade McDonald wants is equivalent to £31,200 per annum assuming the job is full time. That's a lot more than the median wage is currently and I would imagine be higher than anywhere else in the world. Now is that really affordable for small businesses with marginal profits and what would the potential unintended consequences of this be, for instance for inflation and for more skilled jobs? I remember when I visited Cuba the taxi drivers were on a better wedge than hospital consultants due to tips they received from westerners like me. Is this desirable? Showing yourself to be economically illiterate is not a good way to get elected. 

Also, irrespective of its merits or pitfalls, the party would’ve been absolutely slaughtered over the policy in the run up to an election 

[ewerk 30409]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

The minimum wage comrade McDonald wants is equivalent to £31,200 per annum assuming the job is full time. That's a lot more than the median wage is currently and I would imagine be higher than anywhere else in the world. Now is that really affordable for small businesses with marginal profits and what would the potential unintended consequences of this be, for instance for inflation and for more skilled jobs? I remember when I visited Cuba the taxi drivers were on a better wedge than hospital consultants due to tips they received from westerners like me. Is this desirable? Showing yourself to be economically illiterate is not a good way to get elected. 

Your last line is exactly the point. A lot of people were scared to vote for Corbyn's Labour as they were viewed as extremists even though they agreed with certain policies and things like a £15 minimum wage will be viewed as pie in the sky nonsense by the majority who will see it as further evidence of Labour's economic incompetence which is a line that has won the Conservatives several elections since the global economic crash.

[NJS 4375]

34 minutes ago, ewerk said:

A split definitely hurts Labour. Suddenly there is competition for votes and union money. Not to mention that while those further to the left do a lot of canvassing around election time.

There is room in the Labour party for those on the left but they can't accept that their platform has been rejected by the electorate. Instead of campaigning for certain elements to be retained (which Starmer would certainly be open to) they've decided that it's all or nothing and are more than happy to undermine the leadership and ensure that if they don't get their utopian vision then we're condemned to further Tory rule.

I haven't seen any sign of Starmer being open to anything not in the Mandelson playbook which is the problem as he's reneged on the promises he made to get elected. 

 

It weakens the pursuit of Johnson for lying (which Starmer hasn't really gone for anyway) as he's open to the same accusation. 

[ewerk 30409]

Which of his pledges has he reneged on?

[NJS 4375]

Nationalisation, income tax rates, abolishing UC and tuition fees all effectively ruled out. 

 

Lots of others not mentioned as yet like house of Lords abolition.