Politics

[Gemmill 46064]

Chez's the man from Atlantis.

[Monkeys Fist 43088]

Tuition fees were introduced following the Dearing Report, commissioned by John Major in May 1996.

 

Not really a Labour idea, were they?

 

 

Ahem ahem

 

Tuition fees were introduced by Blair and Labour and their landslide government in 1998. They then went on to increased them by over 200%

Read the post, introduced following a Tory commissioned report.

Blame shared.

[Rob W 0]

That's not what the military chiefs are saying though. The comissioning of new aircraft carriers when we were in an economic boom seems odd to me, did you or the tories object at the time? Thought not.

 

 

You don't ask a barber if you need a haircut

 

likewise you don't ask military men if they need ALL the kit in the world

 

the main reason for buying the carriers was that they are going to be assembled in G Brown's back yard

[Rob W 0]

lets face it - Brown and Balls bear a great deal of responsibility for the current mess - they went on increasing Govt spending when it was clearly getting out of hand

I'm sorry but that is absolute nonsense. Answer me how Brown and Balls are responsible for the exact same problems in Portugal, Ireland, Greece? Answer me how Brown and Balls are responsible for the need for austerity measures being implemented across Europe and the US?

 

The deficit is due to the recession, the debt is due to the bail-outs. Both are due to cheap credit being made available in the global markets via toxic assets.

 

We still positioned ourselves pretty badly as a country within that. But the Tories supported it and would have done the same, so it's a moot point really.

 

 

2 wrongs do not make a right

[Christmas Tree 4839]

Stick to the shallow end eh, CT.

 

Stick to the kids pool with his armbands on more like it. Chez and Renton are doing lengths.

 

 

Guess which ones renton?

 

[Christmas Tree 4839]

That's not what the military chiefs are saying though. The comissioning of new aircraft carriers when we were in an economic boom seems odd to me, did you or the tories object at the time? Thought not.

 

 

You don't ask a barber if you need a haircut

 

likewise you don't ask military men if they need ALL the kit in the world

 

the main reason for buying the carriers was that they are going to be assembled in G Brown's back yard

 

 

Precisely

[Renton 22004]

That's not what the military chiefs are saying though. The comissioning of new aircraft carriers when we were in an economic boom seems odd to me, did you or the tories object at the time? Thought not.

 

 

You don't ask a barber if you need a haircut

 

likewise you don't ask military men if they need ALL the kit in the world

 

the main reason for buying the carriers was that they are going to be assembled in G Brown's back yard

 

 

Precisely

 

And what's wrong with supporting Northern ship yards through government contracts exactly? Nothing, and nothing was said to the contrary at the time. How much has Newcastle and Wallsend benefitted from MoD contracts over the years I wonder.

 

Not really the point though, the Royal Navy now doesn't have a single aircraft carrier, you don't have to be a tactical genius to know that weakens us massively militarily in wars abroad. What would Maggie have done during the Falklands conflict without the Ark Royal?

[Renton 22004]

Stick to the shallow end eh, CT.

 

Stick to the kids pool with his armbands on more like it. Chez and Renton are doing lengths.

 

 

Guess which ones renton?

 

 

And CT?

 

[NJS 4411]

And what's wrong with supporting Northern ship yards through government contracts exactly? Nothing, and nothing was said to the contrary at the time. How much has Newcastle and Wallsend benefitted from MoD contracts over the years I wonder.

 

Or Trotter spending millions on Siemens to try and save his seat.

[Christmas Tree 4839]

The other thing worth noting is that the beginning of this tax year, yesterday, was meant to be the day when all the massive job losses were announced (according to Labour scaremongers).

 

I dont know about other councils but Ive heard nothing locally about major job losses in South Tyneside. Could it be that this is being handled very carefully and more cost savings are being found. Maybe just not replacing natural wastage is also occurring.

 

Im sure there will be job losses and each one is nasty for those involved, but the large scale job losses predicted last year dont seem to be happening here.

 

What about elsewhere?

[ChezGiven 0]

It is possible they are losing their bottle seeing how badly the economy is doing. Ultimately, its bond market investor confidence that drives the price of servicing our deficit, so as long as the right political noises were made, then hopefully they stay calm and we don't cut public services as badly as predicted.

 

The political turmoil in Portugal meant the opposition blocked spending cuts, which drove 6 month bond yields up from 4% to 8% in the last month.

 

That strategy does rely on us getting back to economic growth.

[Christmas Tree 4839]

I still believe on the whole most people know this needs to be done and are just getting on with it. Its just not a day to day topic that is cropping up in my world, be that the school yard, the taxi or the pub.

 

Think most people are just being a little bit more careful than usual. Everyone knows we all went a bit potty with credit and the re-adjustment has to happen.

 

Heard on the news yesterday that it was the top 20% that lost out due to yesterdays changes.

[ewerk 31216]

Not really the point though, the Royal Navy now doesn't have a single aircraft carrier, you don't have to be a tactical genius to know that weakens us massively militarily in wars abroad. What would Maggie have done during the Falklands conflict without the Ark Royal?

 

Pointless waste of money tbh.

[Renton 22004]

I still believe on the whole most people know this needs to be done and are just getting on with it. Its just not a day to day topic that is cropping up in my world, be that the school yard, the taxi or the pub.

 

Think most people are just being a little bit more careful than usual. Everyone knows we all went a bit potty with credit and the re-adjustment has to happen.

 

Heard on the news yesterday that it was the top 20% that lost out due to yesterdays changes.

 

Hmmm, but then you apparently missed what went on in the 80s. I'm actually quite surprised that as a taxi driver you aren't feeling the pinch a bit through petrol rises if nothing else.

 

The thing is, you can't use personal experience or anecdotes to gauge what is happening, you need to look at regional and national statistics. Low growth, high inflation, pay freezes, and rising unemployment are evidently not good things, especially when you compare our economy relative to others, and our region to the South. And this is true whoever you blame things on. Given this, I would have thought you could be a bit more restrained in your childish triumphalism at the Conservative 'victory', as people are genuinely suffering from the cutbacks you can't apparently see. This is my main beef with you, and I suspect is why you're largely disliked on this board. Just a thought.

[Christmas Tree 4839]

"Deficit Deniers"

 

George Osborne has said Britain's "deficit deniers" need only look at Portugal's financial crisis for an example of the dangers of national debt.

 

The Chancellor used his speech at the annual conference of the Chambers of Commerce to boost the Government's argument that painful spending cuts were unavoidable.

 

Mr Osborne said Portugal's announcement that it was seeking a bailout from the European Union showed why Britain must take action to tackle its own deficit.

 

He said Portugal, "which has a smaller deficit than us", was an example of the dangers of risking national debt.

 

"If you hear the stories about the spending cuts and still wonder why our country needs to take these difficult decisions - then look at what is happening around us," he said.

 

"First Greece, then Ireland and today Portugal."

 

He went on: "Today of all days we can see the risks that would face Britain, if we were not dealing with our debts and paying off our national credit card.

 

"These risks are not imaginary - they are very, very real.

 

"Those in our country who deny the urgent need to deal with our deficit are playing Russian roulette with Britain's national sovereignty. I will not do that.

 

"We have brought credibility where there was doubt, and stability where there was none."

 

Estimates have suggested Portugal would need as much as 80 billion euros (£70bn).

 

The country's deficit, at 5.2% of national income in 2011, is lower than Britain's 8.1%.

 

But Mr Osborne claimed the Government has been able to reassure the markets it could rein in the deficit through spending cuts and tax rises.

 

"We have put in place a credible deficit reduction plan which is now taking effect," he said.

 

"That has provided a crucial bedrock of stability at home and commanded near universal confidence abroad."

[ewerk 31216]

Not really the point though, the Royal Navy now doesn't have a single aircraft carrier, you don't have to be a tactical genius to know that weakens us massively militarily in wars abroad. What would Maggie have done during the Falklands conflict without the Ark Royal?

 

Pointless waste of money tbh.

 

Edit: My view on 80% of military spend.

[Christmas Tree 4839]

I still believe on the whole most people know this needs to be done and are just getting on with it. Its just not a day to day topic that is cropping up in my world, be that the school yard, the taxi or the pub.

 

Think most people are just being a little bit more careful than usual. Everyone knows we all went a bit potty with credit and the re-adjustment has to happen.

 

Heard on the news yesterday that it was the top 20% that lost out due to yesterdays changes.

 

Hmmm, but then you apparently missed what went on in the 80s. I'm actually quite surprised that as a taxi driver you aren't feeling the pinch a bit through petrol rises if nothing else.

 

The thing is, you can't use personal experience or anecdotes to gauge what is happening, you need to look at regional and national statistics. Low growth, high inflation, pay freezes, and rising unemployment are evidently not good things, especially when you compare our economy relative to others, and our region to the South. And this is true whoever you blame things on. Given this, I would have thought you could be a bit more restrained in your childish triumphalism at the Conservative 'victory', as people are genuinely suffering from the cutbacks you can't apparently see. This is my main beef with you, and I suspect is why you're largely disliked on this board. Just a thought.

 

Very Insightful response to a pretty straight post

 

You are not telling me that the sudden leap in petrol is due to the tory cuts???? At least they have cancelled Labours sneaky rises that were due to come in.

 

Im afraid ancedotes and how people feel is a lot more relevant than statistics. You can tell when something is eating away at the general public from your day to day life. This isnt as far as the people I come into contact with. I suspect its a bigger topic at the Polly Toynbee / Guardian loving dinner parties than the local.

 

Nice little typical Renton dig btw. Always surfaces when you seem to have nothing current or to the point to say.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Christmas Tree

[Renton 22004]

"Deficit Deniers"

 

George Osborne has said Britain's "deficit deniers" need only look at Portugal's financial crisis for an example of the dangers of national debt.

 

The Chancellor used his speech at the annual conference of the Chambers of Commerce to boost the Government's argument that painful spending cuts were unavoidable.

 

Mr Osborne said Portugal's announcement that it was seeking a bailout from the European Union showed why Britain must take action to tackle its own deficit.

 

He said Portugal, "which has a smaller deficit than us", was an example of the dangers of risking national debt.

 

"If you hear the stories about the spending cuts and still wonder why our country needs to take these difficult decisions - then look at what is happening around us," he said.

 

"First Greece, then Ireland and today Portugal."

 

He went on: "Today of all days we can see the risks that would face Britain, if we were not dealing with our debts and paying off our national credit card.

 

"These risks are not imaginary - they are very, very real.

 

"Those in our country who deny the urgent need to deal with our deficit are playing Russian roulette with Britain's national sovereignty. I will not do that.

 

"We have brought credibility where there was doubt, and stability where there was none."

 

Estimates have suggested Portugal would need as much as 80 billion euros (£70bn).

 

The country's deficit, at 5.2% of national income in 2011, is lower than Britain's 8.1%.

 

But Mr Osborne claimed the Government has been able to reassure the markets it could rein in the deficit through spending cuts and tax rises.

 

"We have put in place a credible deficit reduction plan which is now taking effect," he said.

 

"That has provided a crucial bedrock of stability at home and commanded near universal confidence abroad."

 

Who are the deficit deniers?

 

Do you seriously think it is reasonable to compare our economy to Portugal's?

 

Gideon making political capital out of a nonsensical comparison with a struggling country that is practically third world compared to us. A cunt's trick, in other words.

[Renton 22004]

I still believe on the whole most people know this needs to be done and are just getting on with it. Its just not a day to day topic that is cropping up in my world, be that the school yard, the taxi or the pub.

 

Think most people are just being a little bit more careful than usual. Everyone knows we all went a bit potty with credit and the re-adjustment has to happen.

 

Heard on the news yesterday that it was the top 20% that lost out due to yesterdays changes.

 

Hmmm, but then you apparently missed what went on in the 80s. I'm actually quite surprised that as a taxi driver you aren't feeling the pinch a bit through petrol rises if nothing else.

 

The thing is, you can't use personal experience or anecdotes to gauge what is happening, you need to look at regional and national statistics. Low growth, high inflation, pay freezes, and rising unemployment are evidently not good things, especially when you compare our economy relative to others, and our region to the South. And this is true whoever you blame things on. Given this, I would have thought you could be a bit more restrained in your childish triumphalism at the Conservative 'victory', as people are genuinely suffering from the cutbacks you can't apparently see. This is my main beef with you, and I suspect is why you're largely disliked on this board. Just a thought.

 

Very Insightful response to a pretty straight post

 

You are not telling me that the sudden leap in petrol is due to the tory cuts???? At least they have cancelled Labours sneaky rises that were due to come in.

 

Im afraid ancedotes and how people feel is a lot more relevant than statistics. You can tell when something is eating away at the general public from your day to day life. This isnt as far as the people I come into contact with. I suspect its a bigger topic at the Polly Toynbee / Guardian loving dinner parties than the local.

 

Nice little typical Renton dig btw. Always surfaces when you seem to have nothing current or to the point to say.

 

I wouldn't know about these Guardian parties CT.

 

Sorry for the dig but it's true, you're not liked, are you? Your tory rhetoric is bound to wind people up the wrong way on a Newcastle board. I'm not asking you to change your opinions but your gloating doesn't do you any favours. If the outcome is intentional, then that just makes you a wum. Which given some of your football threads is entirely plausible actually.

[Christmas Tree 4839]

I still believe on the whole most people know this needs to be done and are just getting on with it. Its just not a day to day topic that is cropping up in my world, be that the school yard, the taxi or the pub.

 

Think most people are just being a little bit more careful than usual. Everyone knows we all went a bit potty with credit and the re-adjustment has to happen.

 

Heard on the news yesterday that it was the top 20% that lost out due to yesterdays changes.

 

Hmmm, but then you apparently missed what went on in the 80s. I'm actually quite surprised that as a taxi driver you aren't feeling the pinch a bit through petrol rises if nothing else.

 

The thing is, you can't use personal experience or anecdotes to gauge what is happening, you need to look at regional and national statistics. Low growth, high inflation, pay freezes, and rising unemployment are evidently not good things, especially when you compare our economy relative to others, and our region to the South. And this is true whoever you blame things on. Given this, I would have thought you could be a bit more restrained in your childish triumphalism at the Conservative 'victory', as people are genuinely suffering from the cutbacks you can't apparently see. This is my main beef with you, and I suspect is why you're largely disliked on this board. Just a thought.

 

Very Insightful response to a pretty straight post

 

You are not telling me that the sudden leap in petrol is due to the tory cuts???? At least they have cancelled Labours sneaky rises that were due to come in.

 

Im afraid ancedotes and how people feel is a lot more relevant than statistics. You can tell when something is eating away at the general public from your day to day life. This isnt as far as the people I come into contact with. I suspect its a bigger topic at the Polly Toynbee / Guardian loving dinner parties than the local.

 

Nice little typical Renton dig btw. Always surfaces when you seem to have nothing current or to the point to say.

 

I wouldn't know about these Guardian parties CT.

 

Sorry for the dig but it's true, you're not liked, are you? Your tory rhetoric is bound to wind people up the wrong way on a Newcastle board. I'm not asking you to change your opinions but your gloating doesn't do you any favours. If the outcome is intentional, then that just makes you a wum. Which given some of your football threads is entirely plausible actually.

 

 

Its starnge though how I seem able to have many political discussions on here with lots of people, yet it is only you who cries this war cry all the time.

 

A tad sad really.

[Renton 22004]

Its starnge though how I seem able to have many political discussions on here with lots of people, yet it is only you who cries this war cry all the time.

 

A tad sad really.

 

Tbf not very many people even enter these threads. You definitely bring out the worst in me though (and others) and I reckon it's intentional, so well done you. Top class wummery.

[Monkeys Fist 43088]

Deep Throat

Heard on the news yesterday that it was the top 20% that lost out due to yesterdays changes.

 

On Newsnight?

Jacob Rees-Mogg was clearly shown that was bollocks when he stated it. The top 1-2% of the top 20% is the actual stat you're referring to. As well as the entire bottom 20% suffering equally badly.

 

*breast stroke*

[Rob W 0]

"what's wrong with supporting Northern ship yards through government contracts exactly?"

 

because you pour our money into enterprises that aren't viable on their own due to inefficiencies of one sort or another and eventually the tap has to be turned off anyway aftre the cash has been wasted

 

British Leyland, U Clyde Shipbuilders, Rover, British Steel, coal, a number of computer firms............................. the list is very very long

[Renton 22004]

"what's wrong with supporting Northern ship yards through government contracts exactly?"

 

because you pour our money into enterprises that aren't viable on their own due to inefficiencies of one sort or another and eventually the tap has to be turned off anyway aftre the cash has been wasted

 

British Leyland, U Clyde Shipbuilders, Rover, British Steel, coal, a number of computer firms............................. the list is very very long

 

OK Rob, how do you propose we arm our forces? By accepting the lowest tender in a foreign country? I can't see anything wrong in our government using British companies to build ships, tanks, and planes personally. I'd be surprised if most countries don't adopt a bit of protectionism regarding this.

[NJS 4411]

"what's wrong with supporting Northern ship yards through government contracts exactly?"

 

because you pour our money into enterprises that aren't viable on their own due to inefficiencies of one sort or another and eventually the tap has to be turned off anyway aftre the cash has been wasted

 

British Leyland, U Clyde Shipbuilders, Rover, British Steel, coal, a number of computer firms............................. the list is very very long

 

Sometimes even propping up things which look like a "loss" is cheaper in the long run - places like Germany propped up their industries in the 80s and saw them come out stronger in the long run. Compare that with the wastelands of the NE and elsewhere left over from Thatcher's "reality".

 

The tories are also very happy to subsidise BAE, BNFL and of course most of all the fucking farmers without complaint.