Politics

[spongebob toonpants 3954]

The main priority has to be that the market has confidence that the government will bend to it's every whim, whatever the cost to social welfare. If you deviate from this truth even momentarily the market will punish you with a huge plunge."

 

The thing that makes me laugh HF is that you are prepared to believe the idiotic fantasies of internet conspiracy theorists whilst calling into question the motivations / accuracy of the Financial Times.

 

Typical loony lefty I guess.

 

That's a bit of an about turn isn't it?

 

Just a couple of posts ago you said that social welfare spending and market welfare were inextricably linked.

 

When i say the same thing it's a loony lefty conspiracy.

 

Get your story straight.

 

Are they linked or not?

Does the market improve with austerity measures or not?

Does the FT prefer immediate austerity measures to improve the market while the public take the burden or an extended stimulus that lessens the public burden but slows market growth?

 

I should imagine they have weighed up the threat of credit rating downgrade against the threat to growth from austerity.

 

I think its probably about time to bring Greece into your argument now, just to keep your level of ignorance topped up

[Happy Face 29]

The main priority has to be that the market has confidence that the government will bend to it's every whim, whatever the cost to social welfare. If you deviate from this truth even momentarily the market will punish you with a huge plunge."

 

The thing that makes me laugh HF is that you are prepared to believe the idiotic fantasies of internet conspiracy theorists whilst calling into question the motivations / accuracy of the Financial Times.

 

Typical loony lefty I guess.

 

That's a bit of an about turn isn't it?

 

Just a couple of posts ago you said that social welfare spending and market welfare were inextricably linked.

 

When i say the same thing it's a loony lefty conspiracy.

 

Get your story straight.

 

Are they linked or not?

Does the market improve with austerity measures or not?

Does the FT prefer immediate austerity measures to improve the market while the public take the burden or an extended stimulus that lessens the public burden but slows market growth?

 

I should imagine they have weighed up the threat of credit rating downgrade against the threat to growth from austerity.

 

A credit rating downgrade would be exactly what I described you numpty, the market punishing the government for policies that weren't business friendly. That totally backs up exactly what I was saying and what you called lunatic conspiracy theory.

 

[Danny CL 0]

You answered that one in full like

 

To be honest Alex, I'm losing the will to live on this one.

 

I find it staggering that people want to continue building an economy on unsustainable debt levels after a crisis caused by.....unsustainable debt levels

 

nutters

[Guest alex]

You answered that one in full like

 

To be honest Alex, I'm losing the will to live on this one.

 

I find it staggering that people want to continue building an economy on unsustainable debt levels after a crisis caused by.....unsustainable debt levels

 

nutters

I doubt if these strawman arguments even convince yourself tbh. Easier than actually addressing what people are saying though, eh?

[spongebob toonpants 3954]

You answered that one in full like

 

To be honest Alex, I'm losing the will to live on this one.

 

I find it staggering that people want to continue building an economy on unsustainable debt levels after a crisis caused by.....unsustainable debt levels

 

nutters

 

Nice analysis - so much wrong in so few words. The irony levels itt are ots

[Happy Face 29]

You answered that one in full like

 

To be honest Alex, I'm losing the will to live on this one.

 

I find it staggering that people want to continue building an economy on unsustainable debt levels after a crisis caused by.....unsustainable debt levels

 

nutters

 

Which analyst told you that?

 

Our debt levels were totally sustainable.....if the debt had actually been graded correctly by the industry.

 

The crisis was caused by shitty toxic debts getting wrapped up together and sold on as grade-A money making guarantees......and insurance being taken out against them by the select few that knew they'd fail....but didn't give a shit because it would turn a profit.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Happy Face

[Danny CL 0]

You answered that one in full like

 

To be honest Alex, I'm losing the will to live on this one.

 

I find it staggering that people want to continue building an economy on unsustainable debt levels after a crisis caused by.....unsustainable debt levels

 

nutters

 

Nice analysis - so much wrong in so few words. The irony levels itt are ots

 

coming from STP the king of the soundbite. Why don't you tell me where you think that is wrong and I will pick it to bits for you.

[spongebob toonpants 3954]

You answered that one in full like

 

To be honest Alex, I'm losing the will to live on this one.

 

I find it staggering that people want to continue building an economy on unsustainable debt levels after a crisis caused by.....unsustainable debt levels

 

nutters

 

Nice analysis - so much wrong in so few words. The irony levels itt are ots

 

coming from STP the king of the soundbite. Why don't you tell me where you think that is wrong and I will pick it to bits for you.

 

Your claim that people want to build an economy built on unsustainable debt is unttrue. Your claim that the crisis was caused by unsustainable debt is wrong

Obviously we have to keep it simple because you have the economic intelligence of a pre-schooler

Edited July 14, 2010 by spongebob toonpants

[Danny CL 0]

You answered that one in full like

 

To be honest Alex, I'm losing the will to live on this one.

 

I find it staggering that people want to continue building an economy on unsustainable debt levels after a crisis caused by.....unsustainable debt levels

 

nutters

 

Nice analysis - so much wrong in so few words. The irony levels itt are ots

 

coming from STP the king of the soundbite. Why don't you tell me where you think that is wrong and I will pick it to bits for you.

 

Your claim that people want to build an economy built on unsustainable debt is unttrue. Your claim that the crisis was caused by unsustainable debt is wrong

 

What are we going to pay for government spending in a recession with? Magic beans?

 

What do you think started the credit crisis? Toxic debt.

[spongebob toonpants 3954]

You answered that one in full like

 

To be honest Alex, I'm losing the will to live on this one.

 

I find it staggering that people want to continue building an economy on unsustainable debt levels after a crisis caused by.....unsustainable debt levels

 

nutters

 

Nice analysis - so much wrong in so few words. The irony levels itt are ots

 

coming from STP the king of the soundbite. Why don't you tell me where you think that is wrong and I will pick it to bits for you.

 

Your claim that people want to build an economy built on unsustainable debt is unttrue. Your claim that the crisis was caused by unsustainable debt is wrong

 

What are we going to pay for government spending in a recession with? Magic beans?

 

What do you think started the credit crisis? Toxic debt.

 

Nice forensic analysis again.

You actally have less idea than I thought.

[Happy Face 29]

What do you think started the credit crisis? Toxic debt.

 

And what reforms have the tories proposed to put a stop to "toxic" debt?

 

How does cutting public expenditure reduce the amount of sub-prime mortgages, the Alt-A or near prime debt?

 

Public expenditure is the safest debt there is. It's as far from "toxic" as you can get..

Edited July 14, 2010 by Happy Face

[Danny CL 0]

What do you think started the credit crisis? Toxic debt.

 

And what reforms have the tories proposed to put a stop to "toxic" debt?

 

How does cutting public expenditure reduce the amount of sub-prime mortgages, the Alt-A or near prime debt?

 

Public expenditure is the safest least toxic debt there is.

 

Its starts at the bottom and works its way up HF

 

First its some chief selling debt to someone who cant afford it.

Then the banks are selling that debt to other banks....guess what that debt goes south.

Then the banks need propping up, so governments are borrowing like mad

Now we are seeing sovereign default in Europe due to excess debt

 

We need to look at our attitude towards debt on a global scale and look at alternative ways to drive growth.

[Tooj 17]

http://www.twitvid.com/ERX9W

 

Clegg once again proving he's completely sold his soul.

[Christmas Tree 4697]

Its a shame, but it is a pretty pointless task trying to discuss these issues seriously on here with some posters. They act like people who have just found out their loving uncle Albert is a kiddy fiddler and can not believe its true.

 

The coalition is off to a great start cleaning up Labours mess, Cameron is getting better and better and the Labour leadership candidates make Ian Duncan Smith seem exciting.

 

Another 18 years me thinks.

[Happy Face 29]

What do you think started the credit crisis? Toxic debt.

 

And what reforms have the tories proposed to put a stop to "toxic" debt?

 

How does cutting public expenditure reduce the amount of sub-prime mortgages, the Alt-A or near prime debt?

 

Public expenditure is the safest least toxic debt there is.

 

Its starts at the bottom and works its way up HF

 

First its some chief selling debt to someone who cant afford it.

Then the banks are selling that debt to other banks....guess what that debt goes south.

Then the banks need propping up, so governments are borrowing like mad

Now we are seeing sovereign default in Europe due to excess debt

 

We need to look at our attitude towards debt on a global scale and look at alternative ways to drive growth.

 

All of which totally contradicts your pinning the blame on the previous government for running up an unsustainable debt. At least you now admit it was the banks that caused it.

 

Debt itself isn't a bad thing. It's what drives the economy from the bottom up.

 

Toxic debt is a bad thing. Especially when it's sold and insured against as a triple A graded investment.

 

You seem to be confusing debt and toxic debt. You seem to be blaming the governments manageable deficit (as a proportion of GDP) for the banking sectors toxic debts and erroneously insisting the solution is to immediately reduce that deficit at any cost, all the while ignoring the fact that banks continue to wrack up further billions in toxic debts without any legislation proposed to stop it.

[Danny CL 0]

What do you think started the credit crisis? Toxic debt.

 

And what reforms have the tories proposed to put a stop to "toxic" debt?

 

How does cutting public expenditure reduce the amount of sub-prime mortgages, the Alt-A or near prime debt?

 

Public expenditure is the safest least toxic debt there is.

 

Its starts at the bottom and works its way up HF

 

First its some chief selling debt to someone who cant afford it.

Then the banks are selling that debt to other banks....guess what that debt goes south.

Then the banks need propping up, so governments are borrowing like mad

Now we are seeing sovereign default in Europe due to excess debt

 

We need to look at our attitude towards debt on a global scale and look at alternative ways to drive growth.

 

All of which totally contradicts your pinning the blame on the previous government for running up an unsustainable debt. At least you now admit it was the banks that caused it.

 

Debt itself isn't a bad thing. It's what drives the economy from the bottom up.

 

Toxic debt is a bad thing. Especially when it's sold and insured against as a triple A graded investment.

 

You seem to be confusing debt and toxic debt. You seem to be blaming the governments manageable deficit (as a proportion of GDP) for the banking sectors toxic debts and erroneously insisting the solution is to immediately reduce that deficit at any cost, all the while ignoring the fact that banks continue to wrack up further billions in toxic debts without any legislation proposed to stop it.

 

You are missing my point entirely. I have never blamed the government the government for the credit crunch. I have blamed the availability of credit to people who cant pay their debts. And the debt house of cards this worldwide bubble was built on.

 

What Im saying is that no one is immune to bankruptcy not even the UK, therefore austerity has to be the way forward.

 

What I do blame the previous government for is not saving for a rainy day during the good times to lessen the impact of such a crisis and taking the regulation of the banks away from the BOE and giving it to the FSA.

 

The deficit may have been managable but if we had started to put money away during the growth times we may have mad enough to pay our interest charges and sold our stake in the banks when the time is right to recoup the money put into propping up the banks.

 

Austerity then wouldn't have even been an issue.

[Happy Face 29]

What do you think started the credit crisis? Toxic debt.

 

And what reforms have the tories proposed to put a stop to "toxic" debt?

 

How does cutting public expenditure reduce the amount of sub-prime mortgages, the Alt-A or near prime debt?

 

Public expenditure is the safest least toxic debt there is.

 

Its starts at the bottom and works its way up HF

 

First its some chief selling debt to someone who cant afford it.

Then the banks are selling that debt to other banks....guess what that debt goes south.

Then the banks need propping up, so governments are borrowing like mad

Now we are seeing sovereign default in Europe due to excess debt

 

We need to look at our attitude towards debt on a global scale and look at alternative ways to drive growth.

 

All of which totally contradicts your pinning the blame on the previous government for running up an unsustainable debt. At least you now admit it was the banks that caused it.

 

Debt itself isn't a bad thing. It's what drives the economy from the bottom up.

 

Toxic debt is a bad thing. Especially when it's sold and insured against as a triple A graded investment.

 

You seem to be confusing debt and toxic debt. You seem to be blaming the governments manageable deficit (as a proportion of GDP) for the banking sectors toxic debts and erroneously insisting the solution is to immediately reduce that deficit at any cost, all the while ignoring the fact that banks continue to wrack up further billions in toxic debts without any legislation proposed to stop it.

 

You are missing my point entirely. I have never blamed the government the government for the credit crunch. I have blamed the availability of credit to people who cant pay their debts. And the debt house of cards this worldwide bubble was built on.

 

What Im saying is that no one is immune to bankruptcy not even the UK, therefore austerity has to be the way forward.

 

What I do blame the previous government for is not saving for a rainy day during the good times to lessen the impact of such a crisis and taking the regulation of the banks away from the BOE and giving it to the FSA.

 

The deficit may have been managable but if we had started to put money away during the growth times we may have mad enough to pay our interest charges and sold our stake in the banks when the time is right to recoup the money put into propping up the banks.

 

Austerity then wouldn't have even been an issue.

 

I agree that in a perfect world government spending would be deficit neutral (at least) during boom times, but what you're advocating is austerity during booms AND recessions. That is economics catering only to big business.

[Danny CL 0]

not at all, the common logic is to spend in a recession, save in a boom, unfortunatly spending now could have disasterous results.

 

We are recovering and Austerity wont stop that but it will be a slow and painful road. For all of us, including me.

[Happy Face 29]

not at all, the common logic is to spend in a recession, save in a boom, unfortunatly spending now could have disasterous results.

 

We are recovering and Austerity wont stop that but it will be a slow and painful road. For all of us, including me.

 

 

So you do believe in spending during a recession, just not the current one?

[Danny CL 0]

not at all, the common logic is to spend in a recession, save in a boom, unfortunatly spending now could have disasterous results.

 

We are recovering and Austerity wont stop that but it will be a slow and painful road. For all of us, including me.

 

 

So you do believe in spending during a recession, just not the current one?

 

Yes totally 100%

 

The impact on growth of cutting spending is small fry compared to the impact of the UK being downgraded. We seem to be covering old ground here and you're still not getting it.

[Happy Face 29]

not at all, the common logic is to spend in a recession, save in a boom, unfortunatly spending now could have disasterous results.

 

We are recovering and Austerity wont stop that but it will be a slow and painful road. For all of us, including me.

 

 

So you do believe in spending during a recession, just not the current one?

 

Yes totally 100%

 

The impact on growth of cutting spending is small fry compared to the impact of the UK being downgraded. We seem to be covering old ground here and you're still not getting it.

 

You're certainly covering plenty of ground.

 

You don't blame the previous government but you do blame the previous government.

 

You call me a conspiracy theorist for linking austerity measures with market confidence then link austerity measures with market confidence yourself.

 

You say we're all in this together then say London should be spared cuts.

 

Your talking to analysts you can't name, claiming they all agree, ignoring the analysts linked providing contradictory evidence, reading the FT for your impartial economic education.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've missed you so much.

[Danny CL 0]

not at all, the common logic is to spend in a recession, save in a boom, unfortunatly spending now could have disasterous results.

 

We are recovering and Austerity wont stop that but it will be a slow and painful road. For all of us, including me.

 

 

So you do believe in spending during a recession, just not the current one?

 

Yes totally 100%

 

The impact on growth of cutting spending is small fry compared to the impact of the UK being downgraded. We seem to be covering old ground here and you're still not getting it.

 

You're certainly covering plenty of ground.

 

You don't blame the previous government but you do blame the previous government. Not for the recession but for not being prepared for recession

 

You call me a conspiracy theorist for linking austerity measures with market confidence then link austerity measures with market confidence yourself. For questioning the the motivations of the FT and not one of your nutter sites you link to on here

 

You say we're all in this together then say London should be spared cuts. we have to choose carefully where you spend. All I was saying is ROI should be in everyones mind.

 

Your talking to analysts you can't name, claiming they all agree, ignoring the analysts linked providing contradictory evidence, reading the FT for your impartial economic education..... must have missed it mate, I duck in and out of here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've missed you so much. missed you too my love. xXx

[Park Life 71]

Maybe if you read the FT once in a while rather than your copy of razzle you will see what said analysts are saying.

 

What do you think motivates the FT and it's readers? Overall social welfare or listed companies stock prices?

 

The two are intrinsically linked.

 

But if it came to tough decisions, which would they prioritise?

 

I would like to think they would give a balanced view based on the data.

 

Dodging the question.

 

You'd be wrong.

 

They'd say "fuck jobs, fuck healtchare, fuck education, fuck transport, fuck modernisation, fuck oversight and fuck everything else. The main priority has to be that the market has confidence that the government will bend to it's every whim, whatever the cost to social welfare. If you deviate from this truth even momentarily the market will punish you with a huge plunge."

 

What we have in Eng and the likes of france and Germany is practically socialism with consideration to wealth distribution and the social net compared to say America.

[Matt 0]

The impact on growth of cutting spending is small fry compared to the impact of the UK being downgraded. We seem to be covering old ground here and you're still not getting it.

 

Credit ratings are relative. If the best credit in the world is BBB+, then the bidding starts there. It's simple demand and supply. That's why so many fairly dubious corporate credits have managed to get away bonds at skinny pricing- there was simply too much supply of cash and price contracted.

 

A downgrade won't have been pretty, but it would not have been armegeddon. The idea that it's a good thing to heap widespread misery in order to please a bunch on analysts and Moody's, Fitch and S&P suggests the world has gone completely mad. We have to keep things in perspective. Russia got a govt bond away the other week, 1998 seems a long time ago now I guess.

 

Don't forget Labour too was planning cuts. It was indeed inevitable. This is not in question- what is in question is using the economic situation as a trojan horse to go about dismantling the state in line with radical conservative dogma. It's not about saving money, it's about shrinking the state as a whole.

 

I guess when you consider the pre-election rhetoric, which was entirely reasonable, and far more draconian actions since, they really have 'played a blinder'.

 

Great to see Boris scampering over Crossrail as well. It's a brilliant project and a feat of engineering that will revolutionise transport in the capital. But if we're cutting back, then surely we're cutting back.....

Edited July 14, 2010 by Matt

[Park Life 71]

People worried about shit like this should take a closer look at how the ECB borrow money.