Politics

[ewerk 33965]

54 minutes ago, Craig said:

And whilst you state the evidence isn't there to support the idea that men are doing it to get better access to women in vulnerable situations, there doesn't need to be - the loophole is there to exploit which is why I understand the argument around self-identity and statuatory declaration alone. Do we have to wait until someone exploits that loophole before something is done about it? Prevention is far better than cure. 

 

I'm sorry but there does need to be evidence. You can't deny swathes of people to live their lives freely on the basis of 'what if'. Should we ban gay men from public toilets and changing facilities in case one of them assaults me? This is a reasonably new issue in the UK but there has to be evidence from other countries that have more established self-identity rights that show whether or not your fear is founded.

[Gemmill 52028]

I can totally understand women fearing the idea of this being used by creepy rapists etc. And you can say it's irrational based on the evidence, I'm sure it is, but then fear is irrational. And it's not like women have nothing to fear from creepy blokes. 

 

I keep out of it cos it's not really my place to say how any sides in this argument should be feeling. I do wish, in the most shitty, simplistic way imaginable that everyone could just get to be who they want to be without people being a cunt about it. 

 

It's why I still think the likes of Rowling are fucking reprehensible cos that was just a very famous woman with a massive platform who at times seemed to genuinely be enjoying punching down and instigating pile-ons. I think she's a nasty piece of work. 

[Craig 7235]

8 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

I'm sorry but there does need to be evidence. You can't deny swathes of people to live their lives freely on the basis of 'what if'. Should we ban gay men from public toilets and changing facilities in case one of them assaults me? This is a reasonably new issue in the UK but there has to be evidence from other countries that have more established self-identity rights that show whether or not your fear is founded.

That's your opinion. Others disagree and I see their point of view. 

This subject is an absolute can of worms which those who pedal a polar view, attempt to simplify. 

[Craig 7235]

2 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

I can totally understand women fearing the idea of this being used by creepy rapists etc. And you can say it's irrational based on the evidence, I'm sure it is, but then fear is irrational. And it's not like women have nothing to fear from creepy blokes. 

 

I keep out of it cos it's not really my place to say how any sides in this argument should be feeling. I do wish, in the most shitty, simplistic way imaginable that everyone could just get to be who they want to be without people being a cunt about it. 

 

It's why I still think the likes of Rowling are fucking reprehensible cos that was just a very famous woman with a massive platform who at times seemed to genuinely be enjoying punching down and instigating pile-ons. I think she's a nasty piece of work. 

Totally agree with all of this. 

Hugely emotive subject which many close to the coal-face either can't, or refuse to see the alternative view point. 

I got asked by my other half what my sister does when it comes to public toilets. I actually don't know, but I assume she uses, where possible, gender-neutral disabled facilities. I do know she believes strongly that there should be the option for gender-neutral toilet facilties which people of both genders are permitted to use, but even then where does it stop?

Male toilets for born-males only
Male toilets for transitioned men
Gender-neutral toilets for all to use

Female toilets for born-females only

Female toilets for transitioned women

 

Where does the freedom of choice end? 

Perhaps the only answer is to phase out communal toilet facilities and move solely to self-contained cubicles. Who knows? 

[Gemmill 52028]

12 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

I can totally understand women fearing the idea of this being used by creepy rapists etc. And you can say it's irrational based on the evidence, I'm sure it is, but then fear is irrational. And it's not like women have nothing to fear from creepy blokes. 

 

I keep out of it cos it's not really my place to say how any sides in this argument should be feeling. I do wish, in the most shitty, simplistic way imaginable that everyone could just get to be who they want to be without people being a cunt about it. 

 

It's why I still think the likes of Rowling are fucking reprehensible cos that was just a very famous woman with a massive platform who at times seemed to genuinely be enjoying punching down and instigating pile-ons. I think she's a nasty piece of work. 

 

To be clear, I'm not calling trans women "creepy blokes". Or suggesting they're rapists. I'm just saying that fear is irrational and women have been given ample reason to fear. As, by the way, have trans people. 

 

I'm sure there are other people, some of them women, a lot of them blokes, for whom this is just another battle to win. Like not wearing masks during covid, etc. And they can fuck off. 

[ewerk 33965]

18 minutes ago, Craig said:

That's your opinion. Others disagree and I see their point of view. 

 

When you stop making policy based on evidence and start making it on unfounded fears then that's a bad road to go down. My opinion is that trans people are marginalised enough without making it government policy.

Edited Thursday at 11:05 by ewerk

[Rayvin 6382]

The french have shared toilets anyway if I'm right? And I think they do rely on the cubicle thing, very firmly sealed doors etc. It does rather beg the question how often women are being assaulted in public toilets at all, by anyone - if it was a big problem, you'd think they would have ended it.

 

https://www.thetimes.com/world/ireland-world/article/trans-self-id-since-2015-and-no-horror-stories-vzzfx6fvs

 

This article references that Ireland has permitted people to self identify on bathrooms since 2015, and to date there have been precisely zero accounts of any attacks.

 

We can't let fear dictate policy, that's what the right wing attempt to do with everything in their political landscape, and we would call it out in all other senses. If the evidence is there, it would be really easy to make a decision on this, but fear itself isn't enough.

[spongebob toonpants 4476]

I've also got skin in this game and like Craig I feel there is much more nuance to this whole issue than both sides will allow you to think. 

It is the people desperate to claim victory rather than those who want to genuinely protect whichever sides rights that have the loudest voices and are driving the hatred

The only thing I am certain of us the right wing ruling class have successfully turned it into an issue that has the oppressed fighting each other rather than directing their energy where it should go

 

[Dazzler 12539]

I think the whole thing has been made more of an issue than it probably should have been based on lies peddled by utter cunts to stoke fear.

 

The narrative seems to be pushed that trans women in particular are universally dangerous to biological women which is obviously not the case. Abusers are abusers - they are (somewhat ironically) gender-neutral crimes.

 

This whole issue is the new Muslim grooming gang for me - like aye, there are trans people who are absolute monsters, but it's irrefutable fact that there are more monsters who are not trans. You can replace "trans" with just about anything else and it's the same - same as changing Muslim for anything else. It's just depends on which imaginary monster in the sky the idiots in government and the media want to point to this week.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the statistics show that more trans people are victims of violent crime from biological women than the opposite, despite what we're being told.

[Renton 24389]

2 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Cunts will be cunts, innit. 

 

Not always it seems, that's the debate.

 

I think this stuff should be kept well away from politics and remain a judicial issue. Politics should be 80% about economics, 15% about spending, 5% about foreign policy, and 0% about social justice wedge issues imo. 

Edited Thursday at 11:44 by Renton

[Monkeys Fist 46063]

6 minutes ago, Renton said:

wedge issues

I believe the word you’re looking for is 

Does the female form make you uncomfortable, Mr. Renton? 

[Renton 24389]

I like to think I am a prick, not a cunt. 

[RobinRobin 12818]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

I like to think I am a prick, not a cunt. 

[Rayvin 6382]

JK Rowling celebrates her victory over trans people on her 150m dollar super yacht, in the Bahamas, with champagne and a cigar.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14622149/JK-Rowling-parties-Bahamas-150m-superyacht-Supreme-Court-ruling-transgender-women.html?ico=authors_pagination_mobile

 

Check the picture, she looks like a fucking Bond villain. This is what was wrong with this. Pieces of shit like her. Its not about her opinion or point of view, it's about crushing people to amuse herself and then taunting them with her unimaginable wealth. When we finally do get around to eating the rich, I hope she's one of the first.

[Gemmill 52028]

Yep she's fucking horrible. 

[Renton 24389]

Remember this is the Daily Mail you've linked to, for balance. 

[Rayvin 6382]

She posted the same pic on her twitter feed if that helps. I just refuse to touch that platform.

[ewerk 33965]

Why put that much effort into trying to destroy a minority who haven’t done anything to harm you. I don’t understand it.

[Sonatine 12218]

If this is the sort of shit she's happy to come out with in public, I dread to think what she says behind closed doors.  Fair to say she probably has a few dodgy views on quite a range of issues....

[RobinRobin 12818]

[Rayvin 6382]

3 hours ago, Sonatine said:

If this is the sort of shit she's happy to come out with in public, I dread to think what she says behind closed doors.  Fair to say she probably has a few dodgy views on quite a range of issues....

 

She actually came out against asexual people recently, as they had their awareness day and I guess she was bored and wanted to lash out at something. You have to wonder how asexual people are threatening women specifically??

 

I suspect she's now aligned against all LGBTQ. I mean hell she even protested trans people having their identified gender on birth and death certificates. How does that hurt or threaten women? She's full of shit and a bigot, like so many TERFs are.