Meenzer 16387 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 So the exit poll in Germany looks to be broadly in line with the opinion polls. It says a lot that it's something of a relief that the AfD have "only" ended up with about 20%, particularly since the CDU guy who'll be the new Chancellor is very fond of borrowing far-right tropes anyway, but it could have been rather worse. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 11305 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 29 minutes ago, Meenzer said: So the exit poll in Germany looks to be broadly in line with the opinion polls. It says a lot that it's something of a relief that the AfD have "only" ended up with about 20%, particularly since the CDU guy who'll be the new Chancellor is very fond of borrowing far-right tropes anyway, but it could have been rather worse. AfD evidently polling at lower end of expectations, seems Germany's gone Wehrmacht instead of full on SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5909 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 At least AfD didn't win. Immigration remains the spectre across all of Europe and as said by many of us a few times now, is an argument we've lost. The problem is though, Labour are actually doing more about it than the Tories were. Biden had higher numbers than Trump... I wonder if that's a pattern in general. That the "left" does far more on this than people give them credit for. If it is, then the single threatening issue is social media. It's not 'informing people', it's radicalising them based on lies. Which again, we all know. No one here isn't aware of that. But what the fuck are we meant to do about it - we can't ban social media as the free speech police will be out in force... so the only option at all, is to start being better at it than the right are. I see no other way personally. I think huge resources should be poured into this tbh. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 10321 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 25 minutes ago, Rayvin said: At least AfD didn't win. That was never going to happen. 1 in 5 in total (1 in 3 in Eastern Germany) voting for a party that is very far right is pretty worrying though. But so far no other party will form a coalition with them meaning they won’t get into power unless they win an outright majority. They are still able to poison the political discourse. It remains to be seen if there is the possibility of a stable coalition. Only the former two major parties CDU and SPD will probably be able to do it. But it will depend on all minor parties not getting enough votes to enter the parliament (more than 5 percent). Otherwise three parties will be needed to form a government. That wouldn’t be a good prospect considering the different agendas. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 10321 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 The finer details are more worrying. Almost half of the voters in Eastern Germany went for the fascists. That is especially worrying as the candidates for the AfD in Eastern Germany are far more extremists than the ones from the West who are bad enough. It means that the AfD will likely form a government in a federal state soon. Disgusting. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5909 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 At least we have time to fight against it now though, and German leadership on the EU stage is guaranteed. I'm taking it as a win honestly. Yes, there's blood in the water but there was anyway. Europe lives to fight another day, and at least now it's on red alert. France is the next big fight - I did not imagine I'd be appreciating Macron at this point in time, but I guess that's what war does. Changes everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5909 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 16387 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I don't agree with Merz on a lot, but at least he's prepared to say things like this (for now - we'll see how the reality of the job changes that). 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5909 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Agree completely, this is what the EU needed and what the AFD's failure permits. It's a good outcome, even if we have to run with the German Tories to get there. At least their conservatives still stand for some of the more reliable tenets of conservatism like national defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 33024 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Isegrim said: The finer details are more worrying. Almost half of the voters in Eastern Germany went for the fascists. That is especially worrying as the candidates for the AfD in Eastern Germany are far more extremists than the ones from the West who are bad enough. It means that the AfD will likely form a government in a federal state soon. Disgusting. Just give the East back to Russia. See how they like it then. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 23574 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 48 minutes ago, Rayvin said: That looks like a nice homogenous, united country. Goes to show the scarring communism had the populace (or I guess you could flip that and blame it on social democracy and capitalism). Reminds me of this. When you look at Berlin from the ISS, you can see the split between East and West Berlin through the different street light technologies they employ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 33024 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Starmer announces that defence spending will increase to 2.5% by 2027. Funded by cutting the overseas aid budget from 0.5% of GDP to 0.3%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 49635 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Given the circumstances, it seems like a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5909 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 It is also what Trump wanted though. I don't quite know how I feel about all this - departing the US umbrella of security and the transatlantic alliance feels like a good thing but Trump is getting everything he seems to want here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 49635 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Europe needs to beef up its own security, that much is clear. Yes, this is what Trump wanted, but the way things have gone recently, it's also just what we need to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 23574 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, Gemmill said: Given the circumstances, it seems like a good idea. Maybe. It's fucking shit though. With USAID being scrapped and now this, there will be more extreme third world poverty and more trouble downstream. And China will fill the gaps in soft power. No easy answers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5909 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Agree with Rents but I think the reality is that we have to surrender the initiative due to the US dropping the ball. Europe needs to consolidate and stabilise, and back itself to emerge stronger on the other side of that. We need to transition from a benign power to an active one. And who knows, maybe China will achieve more in the developing world than we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 11305 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 It’s nowhere near enough, it will basically only maintain the levels of what we have now (which is already broken) it won’t increase capability. Fuck knows where the money comes from, but more needs to be found. We also need to rethink the F35, great as it is the yanks can ground it if they don’t like what we were going to use it for. Finland is reported to have already canned their order. Of course our two aircraft carriers are built for the F35, what a shambles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 49635 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Alright Andy McNab. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 4333 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Toonpack said: Fuck knows where the money comes from, but more needs to be found. Tax the fucking rich Edited February 25 by spongebob toonpants 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 7505 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 8 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said: Tax the fucking rich I’m sure they rich patriots will all part with their money for the great good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 10321 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, Gemmill said: Europe needs to beef up its own security, that much is clear. Yes, this is what Trump wanted, but the way things have gone recently, it's also just what we need to do. Unfortunately, that’s totally correct. Russia has become a real threat again, not just military wise but also with undermining our democracies and the rule of law from within. Even if the US will claim it to be a victory it will be important to not rely on traditional allegiances. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 4244 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 15 minutes ago, Isegrim said: Unfortunately, that’s totally correct. Russia has become a real threat again, not just military wise but also with undermining our democracies and the rule of law from within. Even if the US will claim it to be a victory it will be important to not rely on traditional allegiances. Russia is not a military threat. This war was supposed to be won in 6 months and we’re 3 years in. Russia has a population more than three times that of Ukraine and they still rely on reinforcements from South Korea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 33024 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: Russia is not a military threat. This war was supposed to be won in 6 months and we’re 3 years in. Russia has a population more than three times that of Ukraine and they still rely on reinforcements from South Korea. I’d give your view more credence if you knew the difference between North and South Korea. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 4244 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, ewerk said: I’d give your view more credence if you knew the difference between North and South Korea. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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