Politics

[Rayvin 5688]

Some form of move back to the EU has to be on the manifesto next time out. I just hope the rise of Farage doesn't scare Labour into shying away from it.

[wykikitoon 21993]

54 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Some form of move back to the EU has to be on the manifesto next time out. I just hope the rise of Farage doesn't scare Labour into shying away from it.

Knowing that grifting cunt he will use it for his next move

[Meenzer 16023]

The German parliament just voted for a big change in its asylum/border policy. Given how the world is right now, I can see a version of events where this repeats itself throughout the EU and free movement ends up going back to being more restricted like it used to be. I suppose that could eventually be what helps to sway the mood in this country in favour of some kind of EU rapprochement, since it was one of the key Brexit arguments in the first place. Assuming we're still capable of adult debate in any meaningful sense by then, of course.

[Rayvin 5688]

11 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

The German parliament just voted for a big change in its asylum/border policy. Given how the world is right now, I can see a version of events where this repeats itself throughout the EU and free movement ends up going back to being more restricted like it used to be. I suppose that could eventually be what helps to sway the mood in this country in favour of some kind of EU rapprochement, since it was one of the key Brexit arguments in the first place. Assuming we're still capable of adult debate in any meaningful sense by then, of course.

 

What was the previous iteration of it like? I don't really have conscious memory of it.

[Monkeys Fist 44181]

1 hour ago, Meenzer said:

The German parliament just voted for a big change in its asylum/border policy. Given how the world is right now, I can see a version of events where this repeats itself throughout the EU and free movement ends up going back to being more restricted like it used to be. I suppose that could eventually be what helps to sway the mood in this country in favour of some kind of EU rapprochement, since it was one of the key Brexit arguments in the first place. Assuming we're still capable of adult debate in any meaningful sense by then, of course.

Even if it did result in us kissing and making up with the EU, is it worth accepting the swing to right wing immigration bullshit that would entail? 
 

I’m fully aware that my leftism doesn’t always align with world politics, but I’ll be fucked if I’d accept right wing immigration nonsense as the status quo, just to get a foot back in the door with Europe. 
 

We’ve made our bed, until we accept it was a monumental fuck-up based on egregious lies from the Right, we’ve got to lie in it. 

[ewerk 32192]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

 

What was the previous iteration of it like? I don't really have conscious memory of it.

Fucked if I know. The Germans seemed to just march into every European country they fancied.

[Renton 23049]

3 hours ago, Meenzer said:

The German parliament just voted for a big change in its asylum/border policy. Given how the world is right now, I can see a version of events where this repeats itself throughout the EU and free movement ends up going back to being more restricted like it used to be. I suppose that could eventually be what helps to sway the mood in this country in favour of some kind of EU rapprochement, since it was one of the key Brexit arguments in the first place. Assuming we're still capable of adult debate in any meaningful sense by then, of course.

 

Is the issue with FoM within Europe? I can see what the issue is with the external borders but doesn't Germany have something like 12 land borders and countless roads with other countries? And it's massively integrated. I can't see check points springing up everywhere. 

[NJS 4483]

"Papers please" is not a good look for Germany. 

 

My reading is that it's more to do with undocumented asylum seekers and moving from automatic acceptance to "send them back". 

[Renton 23049]

BTW, was there ever a more sickening sight than Mandelson today? Have some self respect you creepy fucker. If that's a requirement of the ambassador job, fuck the job. It's horrendous seeing EVERYONE cowtow to this orange cunt. 

[Dr Gloom 23013]

If anyone wants to sleep well I advise against listening to the latest rest is politics podcast where they examine the early signs of fascism

[Gemmill 48196]

I chopped all news and politics pods out of my life last November, added a couple of music ones and, of course, Chart Music. I can highly recommend it. I also haven't seen whatever Renton is talking about with Trump and Mandelson. 

 

Head in the sand lads. Just enjoy your day. Let those dickheads do their stuff, you're not gonna stop them. 

[wykikitoon 21993]

I watched the thing on BBC last night on knife crime with Idris Elba.  Fucking sad man.  The stats on youth services cut etc and all under the Tories.  Yet the gammons are all on about Starmer and Reeves. 

[Renton 23049]

9 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

If anyone wants to sleep well I advise against listening to the latest rest is politics podcast where they examine the early signs of fascism

 

Yeah, listened to it yesterday. I find it really informative. 

[Renton 23049]

2 hours ago, Gemmill said:

I chopped all news and politics pods out of my life last November, added a couple of music ones and, of course, Chart Music. I can highly recommend it. I also haven't seen whatever Renton is talking about with Trump and Mandelson. 

 

Head in the sand lads. Just enjoy your day. Let those dickheads do their stuff, you're not gonna stop them. 

 

I know, you've told us several times. It's all our personal choice ateod, I see things differently and want to remain informed e en if it impacts my MH. Just the way I'm wired, I feel the need to know what's happening whereas you're happy not to. 

 

But what I don't get is why you feel a need to implicitly criticise those with a different mindset on a thread that is specifically about politics? On one level, if you wilfully stay ignorant you're not contributing much. But on another I personally feel you're symptomatic of a wider issue in which the large majority of people turn a blind eye to what is happening around them, including the obvious rise of fascism. We know where that leads. 

[Gemmill 48196]

Yes, I'm personally responsible for the rise of fascism. That seems like something sensible that you would think.

 

It's not implicit criticism. I'm trying to convince you. You're admitting it affects your mental health, but that you just can't stop yourself. That is absolutely fucking mental.

 

And that, for the avoidance of doubt, is EXPLICIT criticism. 

[PaddockLad 18283]

9 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I know, you've told us several times. It's all our personal choice ateod, I see things differently and want to remain informed e en if it impacts my MH. Just the way I'm wired, I feel the need to know what's happening whereas you're happy not to. 

 

But what I don't get is why you feel a need to implicitly criticise those with a different mindset on a thread that is specifically about politics? On one level, if you wilfully stay ignorant you're not contributing much. But on another I personally feel you're symptomatic of a wider issue in which the large majority of people turn a blind eye to what is happening around them, including the obvious rise of fascism. We know where that leads. 

Yeah he’s said it at least twice a week since he quoted various centrist political voices saying Kamala would piss it last November. He got it so hideously and categorically wrong he can’t bare to be reminded of it. It’s a bit like Everton with real world consequences. Trump and Farage don’t worry me, theres fuck all I can properly do about them but silence is complicity  

[Gemmill 48196]

Yeah, I need to post some screenshots of Sarah Kendzior tweets. That's how you fight fascism. 

[ewerk 32192]

There's a happy medium to be had between being constantly switched on to it and burying your head in the sand but ultimately it's whatever makes you happy and I don't think being as plugged in as Renton is is making him happy.

[Renton 23049]

8 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Yes, I'm personally responsible for the rise of fascism. That seems like something sensible that you would think.

 

It's not implicit criticism. I'm trying to convince you. You're admitting it affects your mental health, but that you just can't stop yourself. That is absolutely fucking mental.

 

And that, for the avoidance of doubt, is EXPLICIT criticism. 

 

I'm going to have MH issues regardless. 

People ignoring the rise of fascism on a population level were a major fucking issuein the 1930s I'm afraid to tell you. 

 

Anyway, I'm impacted directly by Trump as I work for an American company. They're really into DEI initiatives  and as a consequence now under direct threat from the government. I am proud they are resisting the threats so far. But who knows what is in store down the line? So I'm informed enough to know I really need to leave for a UK employer, even if that means a paycut (it will). There's a direct real life example of how this affects us. 

[ewerk 32192]

Just now, Renton said:

Anyway, I'm impacted directly by Trump as I work for an American company. They're really into DEI initiatives  and as a consequence now under direct threat from the government. I am proud they are resisting the threats so far. But who knows what is in store down the line? So I'm informed enough to know I really need to leave for a UK employer, even if that means a paycut (it will). There's a direct real life example of how this affects us. 

 

Apologies mate, I didn't realise you were a disabled, black transgender dwarf. They're definitely gunning for your job.

[Gemmill 48196]

11 minutes ago, Renton said:

People ignoring the rise of fascism on a population level were a major fucking issuein the 1930s I'm afraid to tell you.

 

And what good do you think you're doing? 

[Renton 23049]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

 

Apologies mate, I didn't realise you were a disabled, black transgender dwarf. They're definitely gunning for your job.

 

I hope people know that I enjoy a laugh as much as the next person. But trivialising stuff like this (in this specific context) I find a bit worrying. I actually completely ignore the DEI for reasons you state - doesn't affect me. But these minority groups are now literally under attack from their government and for them - my colleagues - it is frankly scary. We all know the poem "First they came for...". I've made meme like jokes using this myself on occassion. But when it literally starts unfolding in the US in front of our eyes, it's like we can't put 2 and 2 together. COncentration camps on Guatanamo bay - not my problem.  I find "the rest is politics" probably the best balanced podcast on these matters - I only listen to that and the Newsagents now (and I listened to Dunt on Origin story the other day). They are all clear about the US situation and how our media is complicit in trivialising it. 

 

On a practical level now, for me, will Trump start gunning for employees of American companies working and paying tax in other countries? Its a distinct possibility imo. 

 

Anyway, I made a post about Perter Mandeson. If you haven't seen it or don't have an opinion, don't engage. But don't make a virtue of your ignorance on it and tell us about your latest pop music podcasts (directed at Gemmill, not you). This is the politics threads, serious posts and funny ones all welcome. 

[Renton 23049]

5 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

And what good do you think you're doing? 

 

Not remaining ignorant is better than nothing. Imo, of course, I know you disagree. I'm not criticising you for that, I'm criticising you for criticising me. 

[ewerk 32192]

7 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I hope people know that I enjoy a laugh as much as the next person. But trivialising stuff like this (in this specific context) I find a bit worrying. I actually completely ignore the DEI for reasons you state - doesn't affect me. But these minority groups are now literally under attack from their government and for them - my colleagues - it is frankly scary. We all know the poem "First they came for...". I've made meme like jokes using this myself on occassion. But when it literally starts unfolding in the US in front of our eyes, it's like we can't put 2 and 2 together. COncentration camps on Guatanamo bay - not my problem.  I find "the rest is politics" probably the best balanced podcast on these matters - I only listen to that and the Newsagents now (and I listened to Dunt on Origin story the other day). They are all clear about the US situation and how our media is complicit in trivialising it. 

 

On a practical level now, for me, will Trump start gunning for employees of American companies working and paying tax in other countries? Its a distinct possibility imo. 

 

Anyway, I made a post about Perter Mandeson. If you haven't seen it or don't have an opinion, don't engage. But don't make a virtue of your ignorance on it and tell us about your latest pop music podcasts (directed at Gemmill, not you). This is the politics threads, serious posts and funny ones all welcome. 

 

I'm not in the AA but they definitely use words of wisdom which come in handy at times like this.

 

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference."

[Renton 23049]

6 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

I'm not in the AA but they definitely use words of wisdom which come in handy at times like this.

 

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference."

 

I can make a change though, I can get different employment. Application forms being completed tonight. And anyway, I accept completely I can't change things in a wider way. Who here has ever said they can? But there's nothing in that AA maxim that says remain ignorant about your situation, in fact, that's almost the opposite of what they mean. Stay aware and mindful of the situation you find yourself in is pretty key with alcoholism.

 

Anyway, I am entirely aware that toontastic is mainly a place for shits and giggles as the World burns, so I'll leave it there.