Politics

[Gemmill 45242]

1 hour ago, spongebob toonpants said:

Biden statement. I'm inclined to say fair enough

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/12/01/statement-from-president-joe-biden-11/

 

 

 

Agreed. His son is a fucking idiot, no question about it, but he's been singled out and treated differently to anyone else. And this is against the backdrop of all of Trump's court proceedings falling away because he's president again. 

 

It's not a great look, but why the fuck would he let his kid get treated like this given that context. 

[Renton 21741]

Maybe, but it just shows how far American democracy has fallen. I never realised until recently the politics and law was so intertwined there. Failure to seperate them will ultimately prove disastrous. Also the US was supposed to be a bastion of secularism, on paper much more so then the UK which has clerics in the upper chamber and the head of state is also the head of the church. But the reality is quite the opposite as the US descends increasingly into autocratic theocracy and I don't know a single church goer who isn't over 60 years old or recovering from mental illness. 

Makes me feel a bit better about our own country, although we are somehow failing just as much in other ways. 

[Gemmill 45242]

Trump has nominated conspiracy nut Kash Patel to head up the FBI. Honestly that country is gonna fall apart. The lunatics are taking over the asylum. 

[Renton 21741]

Just now, Gemmill said:

Trump has nominated conspiracy nut Kash Patel to head up the FBI. Honestly that country is gonna fall apart. The lunatics are taking over the asylum. 

 

It does seem like it. Appointing a bunch of grifting lunatics into positions of highest power and getting them to implement introducing near suicidal economic policies. We're going to see how far "common sense" gets you compared with using experts.

As scaramucci says, it's like getting one of us arm chair pundits from toontastic to manage NUFC. I mean, fair enough if it was me, we'd be dead certs for the PL again, but imagine if one of you fucking no hopers was given the gig? We'd be beneath the mackems in 2 seasons. 

[Rayvin 5236]

Farage is trying to whip up hysteria about the Chagos Islands now, claiming the Trump government is outraged by it. The current US government has signed off on it at every level but honestly this is going to be the next few years. Farage backed by Trump/Musk is going to be the opposition, not the Tories.

[Rayvin 5236]

7 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said:

Biden statement. I'm inclined to say fair enough

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/12/01/statement-from-president-joe-biden-11/

 

 

 

The problem with this is - yes, it's reasonable in the context and I don't judge him as a father for this. However... it's a man saving his kid at the expense of credibility of the "sane" side of politics. It's more ammunition for the people whose outlook is 'they're all the same'. It's something that the footsoldiers of sanity - people like us - now need to try to argue against and justify on his behalf in discussions the world over with morons.

 

Hunter Biden absolutely did not deserve what likely would have come his way if he hadn't been pardoned, but I think the the needs of the many should have come first here.

[spongebob toonpants 4011]

https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:b7kamuwqipovlbz2l5vhe2tb/post/3lceacftvrs2b

 

 

[Monkeys Fist 42565]

8 hours ago, Rayvin said:

Farage is trying to whip up hysteria about the Chagos Islands now, claiming the Trump government is outraged by it. The current US government has signed off on it at every level but honestly this is going to be the next few years. Farage backed by Trump/Musk is going to be the opposition, not the Tories.

If the beer-swilling cunt can point to the Chagos Islands on a map without looking it up first I’ll eat my bleeding heart. 
 

Someone needs to take this whopper out flying again, do the job properly this time. 

[Toonpack 9548]

22 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said:

So Biden has decided to pardon his son just before he leaves office. Giving Trump a ready made excuse to do the same to anyone he pleases. Poor show, Joe.

Like Trump needs an excuse, he was throwing pardons around like confetti last time.

[Renton 21741]

19 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

Like Trump needs an excuse, he was throwing pardons around like confetti last time.

 

Not really the point though, we now, with some justification, have proof of "theyre all the same" narrative. What makes it worse is that you could make an argument Trump never hides his intentions, however awful they are. Biden has lied repeatedly on this matter. 

I'd probably do the same in his shoes at this stage, because family comes first. But there is something wrong structurally in the US that this can happen at all. Now both parties are complicit in abusing the system, I can't  see it ending well. Maybe that ship has already sailed but both parties are now full speed on the tiller. 

[Toonpack 9548]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

Not really the point though, we now, with some justification, have proof of "theyre all the same" narrative. What makes it worse is that you could make an argument Trump never hides his intentions, however awful they are. Biden has lied repeatedly on this matter. 

I'd probably do the same in his shoes at this stage, because family comes first. But there is something wrong structurally in the US that this can happen at all. Now both parties are complicit in abusing the system, I can't  see it ending well. Maybe that ship has already sailed but both parties are now full speed on the tiller. 

 

I hope it's a sign (though I doubt it) that the Dems have FINALLY realised that playing by the rules isn't wort shit given the other side couldn't give a fuck.

 

To equate Biden's pardon with Trumps pardons of Stone/Manafort/Bannon etc. is a real stretch. As for "they're all the same" that battle is long lost. Gloves need to come off.

[Renton 21741]

7 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

 

I hope it's a sign (though I doubt it) that the Dems have FINALLY realised that playing by the rules isn't wort shit given the other side couldn't give a fuck.

 

To equate Biden's pardon with Trumps pardons of Stone/Manafort/Bannon etc. is a real stretch. As for "they're all the same" that battle is long lost. Gloves need to come off.

 

The principle is the same, even if it is much less egregious and is well-intentioned. 

So, both parties stop playing by the rules then. Games without rules are great, I can see that ending well. At least with the Dems playing by the rules there was an anchor to normality, normative politics. If that is removed, the ship is well and truly out of control (to continue the nautical analogies). Or if you prefer another even more nerdy example, it's like Galadriel using the one ring. You've given up on fighting the side of good. The whole system will be corrupt. 

Edited 22 hours ago by Renton

[Gemmill 45242]

I mean all he's done is stop his son from being targeted unfairly and presumably imprisoned for a fairly long time off the back of it. 

 

I think you're falling into a bit of a trap here if you're throwing your hands up and going "well now Trump can do WHATEVER he likes", cos Trump is already gonna do whatever he likes. 

 

The hand wringing about "ooooh the licence this has given to Trump" needs to stop. The bloke wanted a grooming sex offender as his Attorney General and was already likely going to pardon the Jan 6 lot. 

 

I fail to see why Biden should have had to go "Sorry son, you're on your own" to his own kid. 

[RobinRobin 11357]

Trump also effectively has Supreme Court permission to pardon himself. 

It's not a good look I agree but Biden has not had a lot of luck family-wise.

[Alex 35162]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy

[Renton 21741]

32 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

I mean all he's done is stop his son from being targeted unfairly and presumably imprisoned for a fairly long time off the back of it. 

 

I think you're falling into a bit of a trap here if you're throwing your hands up and going "well now Trump can do WHATEVER he likes", cos Trump is already gonna do whatever he likes. 

 

The hand wringing about "ooooh the licence this has given to Trump" needs to stop. The bloke wanted a grooming sex offender as his Attorney General and was already likely going to pardon the Jan 6 lot. 

 

I fail to see why Biden should have had to go "Sorry son, you're on your own" to his own kid. 

 

No, you're missing the point. What he's done is used the judiciary for nepotistic reasons. It's corruption, simple as that. Hunter Biden was convicted by 12 jurors the same as Trump was in New York. He's been pardoned before he was even sentenced and is now also immune form any other wrongdoings in the last 10 years. And Biden repeatedly lied about it*. If you can't be honest enough to see the problem with that, then fair enough. 

Time and time again what we are seeing recently is that is things aren't properly codified people like Trump wil corrupt the system, and that corruption then acts as a contagion. The democrats are now also infected. 

 

* As I said, I entirely understand his personal motives and probably would have done the same thing myself. Still wrong though. 

[Renton 21741]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy

 

Maybe this has been going on longer than I thought then! Seems nepotism and cronyism (the latter in this case) are an indelible part of the US political system. Banana republic stuff this. 

[spongebob toonpants 4011]

6 minutes ago, Alex said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy

Just beat me to it

[Gemmill 45242]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

Maybe this has been going on longer than I thought then! Seems nepotism and cronyism (the latter in this case) are an indelible part of the US political system. Banana republic stuff this. 

 

Just apologise by PM if you want to keep it on the DL. 

[Howmanheyman 33392]

https://bsky.app/profile/jwsidders.bsky.social/post/3lcfgvzpywo2v

 

 

 

 

[Dazzler 9847]

2 hours ago, Gemmill said:

I fail to see why Biden should have had to go "Sorry son, you're on your own" to his own kid. 

It depends what the yet to be investigated crimes were tbh - but the general point is fair enough. Trump is going to do it regardless of Biden, and couldn't care less about the response because his base will always defend the indefensible anyway because they are idiots.

 

If it was generally all fraud related (which I think it probably will be) then he should crack on - it's not like trump isn't going to pardon himself for the exact same thing. Biden pardoning his son is less controversial than trump pardoning himself IMO.

[Rayvin 5236]

Renton has the right of this and any view of it to the contrary is partisan stuff IMO. We have to hold our side to a higher standard than they do, it's basically the only source of credibility we have. If we abandon that, it's a race to the bottom for who can be the most shit while getting away with it. Trump certainly would have continued anyway, but now we've lost all ability to say anything about it. Or some of us have anyway. Biden shouldn't have pardoned his son, it's an abuse of power and while I understand his reasons it just isn't acceptable. The answer has to be that his son is protected through judicial safeguards and apolitical operating. Not by fighting fire with fire. If that made his son a martyr to the cause, so be it. Plenty of others have been, plenty of people die every day as a result of this culture war bullshit. Why his son should be spared simply because daddy is president, I don't know.

 

As I said last page, I can understand him doing it - but it's weak. Not presidential. Nothing new with Biden though tbf.

 

I'm also going to agree that a country which gives one man the power to unilaterally intervene in justice like this, is a joke. The president of the US has way too much power for a single person.

[Alex 35162]

Tbh I just posted the Clinton link for context as people didn’t seem to be aware of this kind of thing being the norm. It wasn’t meant to be tacit approval. I don’t really blame Biden, if I’m honest, but at the same time he would’ve known what ammunition it would supply. Just shows he’s not that arsed about the consequences I suppose. 

[Gemmill 45242]

The left just needs to keep turning up in the octagon and putting its dukes up like Gentleman Jim.

 

We're talking about a country that has just voted a 34 count felon in as president. I'm sorry but I'm not interested in hearing how the rest of us just need to fair play our way back into the game. 

[Rayvin 5236]

9 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

The left just needs to keep turning up in the octagon and putting its dukes up like Gentleman Jim.

 

We're talking about a country that has just voted a 34 count felon in as president. I'm sorry but I'm not interested in hearing how the rest of us just need to fair play our way back into the game. 

 

This isn't about fighting dirty in a political war though, this is about an old man getting his son off from a crime. It doesn't benefit 'the left' at all. It just benefits him. I agree with you absolutely on the left needing to be prepared to play dirty - but Biden has just squandered some of our credibility for doing that on an entirely personal matter. Or can you tell me how this benefits 'our team'?