Politics

[Renton 20826]

54 minutes ago, NJS said:

only 6% of 2019 tory voters voted Labour

 

Well that alone is a 12% swing. I mean, the margin of victory was absolutely historic but you're porttaying it as a failure? Not only that, you're also making some weird prediction because voters will feel let down by Labour not being more left wing,  they will swing to the lunatic fringes of the tory party and reform, or some undefined socialist party? 

You will never be able to give a balanced view on this. You're idealogically entrenched and can't see past it. 

[Rayvin 5140]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

 

Fair enough. I agree with respect to the state of the country and people's perception of it, and I know who I blame for that.

Years ago the great visionary CT declared all that was left for the country now, and western democracies more generally, was managed decline. Maybe he was right. When I look at the demographic profiles of our countries, the pension timebomb, the invention of AI, the cost of personalised medicines, the wealth gap, etc, it does feel a bit hopeless. But I also know that unexpected things will happen to change things, and governments have little contro over these. 

But at the same time, you call for some form of revolution in our political thinking, but you don't ever state what this would be, let alone give the details? We exist within the constraints of a captalist paradigm. How do you break free from that in a global economy? You don't, you have to play by the rules and do the best you can within them. Or you become Venezuela or Argentina. That is what Labour are tryig to do imo.

And. 3 months man. 

 

Fair, I guess that my point comes down to really is that I can't take this situation anymore. But that's my own issue and I suppose reflective of my own life.

 

I'm not calling for a revolution though, I think more than any other single thing, I'd call for truth. I can accept bad news if it's the truth, but I think at this point I'm so enraged by the lack of truth telling in politics in general about why we are where we are, that I have no patience for anything anyone is saying anymore. Nor do I trust it. Honestly I think I am very sadly approaching 'they're all as bad as each other' because none of them tell the truth about the things that really matter (to me).

 

2 hours ago, Alex said:

A bit of conjecture of course by me. But I think Labour are a bit out of their depth, due to inexperience and the multiple issues faced and economic constraints stopping them applying many quick fixes. But I think the Lib Dems would be even more hampered on that score. I do think Labour are coming in for some unfair criticism. But they certainly don’t help themselves in terms of putting out there the reasons for doing stuff. It is going to take time to tackle things because of the complete lack of joined up thinking and strategy from the previous government. I do have sone insight into the complexity of it all at work. It’s fucking incredible how one change can trigger a lot of unwanted consequences. I’m not trying to be patronising btw, I share a lot of your concerns. And Labour are in bother if they can’t take like you people along with them on the journey. It’s no good just appeasing middle England. Various demographics are ripe for being swept up by Reform, the Greens, Lib Dems, independents. Even if the Tories continue to destroy themselves 

 

I think this fair, and tbh I'm not sitting here pretending I know the ins and outs of anything so I'm definitely not feeling patronised mate, I respect your views and what informs them. I think honestly I'm just stuck now on what I feel about this rather than what the reality may or may not be. I feel let down. I feel ignored, I feel like my values and principles aren't represented. If they're still there at all, it seems we have to go digging for them rather than them being shared proudly. I resent that I have been left behind by the party that is meant to represent me, and which I backed through thick and thin my entire adult life, in favour of people who don't believe in any of the things I do.

 

I look around as well at Gen Z, and if you ask me, they're heading to the right - but it's happening because the left isn't speaking to them. I mean is the left actually speaking to anyone anymore? Where are our voices in the maelstrom? Meanwhile the right is all over them, filling their minds with poison - and our left leaning government is parroting their talking points. We can't even stand up for what we believe in. We're too afraid to do it because what we actually believe in, apparently can't win on its own merits. It has to be hidden and obfuscated, achieved via half measures or through stealth. And I accept the realities around this but at the same time, I absolutely fucking hate it. I cannot overstate how much I hate watching the left 'pretend' to be centrist. So my ongoing belligerence with this issue isn't even really ideological anymore, it's that I feel abandoned by people who I thought felt the same way as me.

[Renton 20826]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Fair, I guess that my point comes down to really is that I can't take this situation anymore. But that's my own issue and I suppose reflective of my own life.

 

I'm not calling for a revolution though, I think more than any other single thing, I'd call for truth. I can accept bad news if it's the truth, but I think at this point I'm so enraged by the lack of truth telling in politics in general about why we are where we are, that I have no patience for anything anyone is saying anymore. Nor do I trust it. Honestly I think I am very sadly approaching 'they're all as bad as each other' because none of them tell the truth about the things that really matter (to me).

 

Youi know, I couldn't agree any more with you on this point about truth. Not telling the truth, facilitating lies, has been the downfall of many countries and Empires in the past, the Soviet Union being a classic example.

Depressingly it seems to me that we, as a people, being exposed to MSM outlets with vested interests  and social media, are not capable of understanding the truth any more and furthermore most don't want to hear it. 

 

But, that being said, fwiw, I think Labour have been true to their word. People are still criticising them for sticking to their manifesto. They said things would be tough, and they are. Honestly, I've seen so many people fall down "they're all the same" route but in this case I just don't get it, can you seriously compare Starmer and Labour to the Johnson's government? And its not a level playing field. This morning on the radio I heard there was great controversy because Starmer had met Taylor Swift and she was provided with security (immediately after Vienna). If this had been Johnson, this meeting would have been celebrated, probably would have got on Hello magazine. 

 

Seriously, I don't know what Labour can do at this point. They are criticised no matter what they do, and then people complain they are not bold enough. 

[Gemmill 43622]

 

 

Regarding "Swiftgate". 

 

I'm fucking sick of "The News Agents" as well btw. Formerly quality journalists who are now just as obsessed with the drama as Laura K is. 

 

Last night's episode was about whether they've broken a manifesto promise by raising Employer's NIC. No lads. They haven't. But well done on breathing further life into Tory talking points. 

[Monkeys Fist 41697]

Speaking of Kuntsberg, I’m surprised and somewhat disappointed that a woman with such unimpeachable standards and morals has allowed this to happen on her watch. 
 

 

I wonder which of this week’s remaining days we can ether resignation letter to drop? 
She’s been pictured in discussion with her ethics advisor …

[Renton 20826]

26 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

 

Regarding "Swiftgate". 

 

I'm fucking sick of "The News Agents" as well btw. Formerly quality journalists who are now just as obsessed with the drama as Laura K is. 

 

Last night's episode was about whether they've broken a manifesto promise by raising Employer's NIC. No lads. They haven't. But well done on breathing further life into Tory talking points. 

 

Yeah, I'm losing patience too. I used to love Lewis Goodhall but listen to him blabber on about employer NI last night was an embarassment.

Truth is, there is not enough politcal news for an interesting daily podcast when a competent government is in power (it was different with the tories as there was a disaster every other day). They need to drop their production but this will hit their revenues. So they're just like everybody else. Who knew? 

[PaddockLad 16858]

🧵
 

 

[Renton 20826]

12 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

🧵
 

 

 

That is seriously impressive, nearly all important issues that need attention. top 3 esepcially (as a Dad, I cannot tell you how much I want digital safety beefed up. Don't remember the tories doing this #allthesame. 

[Gemmill 43622]

Musk making it impossible to read anything beyond one post if you don't have an account on his stupid site is just the icing on the cake for what an arsehole he is. 

[Rayvin 5140]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

That is seriously impressive, nearly all important issues that need attention. top 3 esepcially (as a Dad, I cannot tell you how much I want digital safety beefed up. Don't remember the tories doing this #allthesame. 

 

The Tories did go to some lengths on it as I recall but it is an easy one for them I guess. Didn't May try to do something there? There was a huge outcry from the free speech warriors about them censoring the internet.

 

Agree on protecting children anyway - I don't have any myself but my younger sister is 13 and some of the things she tells me about the sort of abuse girls have to put up with in mixed schools makes me shudder, and I'm quite sure it's being promoted by easy access to porn and the like.

[Renton 20826]

5 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Musk making it impossible to read anything beyond one post if you don't have an account on his stupid site is just the icing on the cake for what an arsehole he is. 

If this helps (horrible formatting and ruined the thread page mind). 

 

This might be the most switched-on crop of Labour MPs we’ve ever had. 15 of them are presenting private members’ bills today. It’s the biggest clue yet which issues they care most about. The list of bills:

11:24 AM · Oct 16, 2024

·

145.7K

Views

52

323

1.8K

217

Post your reply

 

Reply

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill Gives terminally ill people in England and Wales the right to end their life. Presented by

@kimleadbeater

6

19

281

29K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Water Bill Overhauls management of the water system, including setting new goals. Requires the government to publish a plan to reach those goals and establishes a Commission on Water to advise on that strategy. Presented by

@labourlewis

4

20

353

28K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Protection of Children (Digital Safety and Data Protection) Bill Requires social media companies to change their algorithms to make content less addictive for young people, helping to reduce their screen time. Presented by

@JoshMacAlister

1

15

326

24K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Rare Cancers Bill Creates financial incentives for clinical trials to find new treatments for rare brain cancers. Presented by

@DrScottArthurMP

2

17

308

26K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Free School Meals (Automatic Registration of Eligible Children) Bill Introduces auto-enrolment for all children who qualify for free school meals, to improve. Presented by

@PeterKLamb

, who says only half of eligible children in his area are claiming them.

5

19

375

26K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Controlled Drugs (Procedure for Specification) Bill Changes the procedure for deciding which class controlled drugs fall into. Presented by

@alexmclabour

1

12

192

21K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Licensing Hours Extensions Bill Makes it easier to change the hours when alcohol can be sold. Amends the Licensing Act so these adjustments can be made by a ’negative resolution’, which means they automatically pass unless Parliament opposes them. Presented by

@AndrewRangerMP

1

14

178

20K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Looked After Children (Distance Placements) Bill Requires councils to share details about children in care who are placed far from their home area. Requires the government to publish a national plan to ensure adequate care for these children. Presented by

@JakeBenRichards

3

18

237

19K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Absent Voting (Elections in Scotland and Wales) Bill Addresses rules around absentee voting for local elections in Scotland and Wales, as well as elections for the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Senedd. Presented by

@tracygilbert72

2

11

127

18K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Unauthorised Entry to Football Matches Bill Creates a new crime of unauthorised entry to football matches. If someone is convicted, they could be given a football banning order, preventing them from attending matches. Presented by

@LFarnz

3

16

156

17K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Space Industry (Indemnities) Bill Requires licenses for spaceflight operators to include their indemnity limit – the highest amount they may have to pay out for accidents or damage – to make them aware of their financial responsibilities. Presented by

@johnadgrady

2

12

134

17K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Short-term Let Accommodation Bill Licenses short-term let accommodation, so national safety standards apply to them. Allows councils to control the number allowed in their area, and decide things like the number of days they can operate. Presented by

@RachaelMaskell

4

15

196

16K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Fur (Import and Sale) Bill Prevents the import and sale of all animal fur by extending bans to include the fur of animals like foxes, mink, and coyotes. Presented by

@RuthJonesLabour

1

17

210

17K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Fireworks Bill Toughens penalties for setting off fireworks after 11pm. Presented by

@SarahOwen_

3

21

242

15K

Sebastian Salek

@sebastiansalek

·

4h

Sale of Tickets (Sporting and Cultural Events) Bill Aims to ban rip-off tickets for sporting and cultural events like the recent Oasis sale. Presented by

@RupaHuq

2

19

287

18K

 

MUSK IS A CUNT

[Renton 20826]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

The Tories did go to some lengths on it as I recall but it is an easy one for them I guess. Didn't May try to do something there? There was a huge outcry from the free speech warriors about them censoring the internet.

 

Agree on protecting children anyway - I don't have any myself but my younger sister is 13 and some of the things she tells me about the sort of abuse girls have to put up with in mixed schools makes me shudder, and I'm quite sure it's being promoted by easy access to porn and the like.

 

It's fucking horrible mate. I'd go so far as to say at the moment social media and its effect on my daughter is ruining our family life. Tik Tok and especially SnapChat are the worst. They're like crack cocaine, no exaggeration. 

Edited Wednesday at 15:05 by Renton

[Gemmill 43622]

Thanks for that. A disappointing lack of culture war issues raised. Where is Labour's Minister for Common Sense?! 

[Rayvin 5140]

40 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

It's fucking horrible mate. I'd go so far as to say at the moment social media and its effect on my daughter is ruining our family life. Tik Tok and especially SnapChat are the worst. They're like crack cocaine, no exaggeration. 

 

You mind sharing a bit more on it? Like is it her addiction or cyber bullying or what? Fair enough if you don't wanna share btw, just considering it with one eye on my sis I guess.

[Dr Gloom 21698]

23 hours ago, Renton said:

 

I'm in the process of losing weight. I nudging obese levels on the BMI scale which for me was the time to think seriously about losing weight. I've lost 14 kg since April (about 2 stone) and am on target to get down to 82 Kg by next April which will put me at the top end of the normal range. I intend to stay there. Fuck me its hard though. The only way you can do it is through calorie control, burn more than you use and be obsessive about it. I walk on average 15,000 steps a day now but exercise is only a small part of it, 20% to be exact. The rest is all about changing your diet. I've massively cut down on carbs and eat a lot of salad and fruits. It's fucking expensive though and takes will power. 

 

I just don't know if these are governmental responsibilities. How are they going to subsidise fresh food and make it accessible? Who is going to pay for leisure centres? Ozempic (Semaglutide) is very effective but it's long-term safety and efficacy is not known, I can easily imagine rebound effects after stopping treatment being disastrous. Long story short, I think you're right but it feels we need some kind of joined up thinking here to promote healthiness more as a concept. Again, New Labour were more into preventative treatments but Cameron scrapped these initiatives.  

 

congratulations on the weight loss journey mate. i don't think obsessive calorie control is sustainable long term, nor is cutting out carbs. once your body adapts to feeling full from reduced portion sizesl, the weight is easy to keep off - as long as you continue to eat healthy carbs, fats and proteins the majority of the time and don't resort to old habits. not drinking will help you massively too. i found cutting midweek booze entirely and restricting weekend consumption has been the key to staying lean all year round. 

[Renton 20826]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

congratulations on the weight loss journey mate. i don't think obsessive calorie control is sustainable long term, nor is cutting out carbs. once your body adapts to feeling full from reduced portion sizesl, the weight is easy to keep off - as long as you continue to eat healthy carbs, fats and proteins the majority of the time and don't resort to old habits. not drinking will help you massively too. i found cutting midweek booze entirely and restricting weekend consumption has been the key to staying lean all year round. 

 

Aye, that's the plan. I mean I'm not doing W/W or anything like that anyway, just being aware and cutting out carbs in favour of protein mainly. Your appetite reduces accordingly, and proteins are more filling. When I reach my target I hope to maintain it by still eating healthily. No more than a small piece of chocolate a day etc. You appreciate it more ulltimately. Just a fact as you get older you can't continue eating and drinking what you want without consequences. There is not a single thing I like about getting older tbh.

 

[Renton 20826]

22 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

You mind sharing a bit more on it? Like is it her addiction or cyber bullying or what? Fair enough if you don't wanna share btw, just considering it with one eye on my sis I guess.

 

I'll be vague but the problems are with addiction and all that entails, self esteem issues, with a sprinkling of safeguarding concerns (i.e. conversations with fuck knows who they "met" on Roblox). It's all supposed to be controlled by parent accounts but kids are brilliant at getting around any safeguards. I mean, ask the kid how old they are ffs, that'll work.

I mean, a lot of this is probably driven by puberty and being a teenager but social media makes it 10 times worse. Constant arguments and stormings off over it. Sick of it,  I hate these companies.  

[Dazzler 9057]

19 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I'll be vague but the problems are with addiction and all that entails, self esteem issues, with a sprinkling of safeguarding concerns (i.e. conversations with fuck knows who they "met" on Roblox). It's all supposed to be controlled by parent accounts but kids are brilliant at getting around any safeguards. I mean, ask the kid how old they are ffs, that'll work.

I mean, a lot of this is probably driven by puberty and being a teenager but social media makes it 10 times worse. Constant arguments and stormings off over it. Sick of it,  I hate these companies.  

Neither me or my wife are on FB anymore. The only thing I’m on now is LinkedIn and only then whenever I am job hunting so once every few years or so. It got to a point as an adult that I began to hate the people I love the most because of the utter shit they post on social media so I came off it around Covid.

 

I use TikTok but only to watch videos of old people falling over. Or dogs and cats tormenting their idiot owners.

 

Coming off the major socials is still the best thing I did in the last few years. I’m hoping that neither of us being on it will help our kids grasp how shit it actually is.

[Rayvin 5140]

Have also found myself steering clear of social media with the singular exception of discord. At least with that one you're just talking to people rather than sharing photos/unrealistic lifestyles etc.

 

It really doesn't feel like it's doing anything positive for society.

[Gemmill 43622]

31 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I'll be vague but the problems are with addiction and all that entails, self esteem issues, with a sprinkling of safeguarding concerns (i.e. conversations with fuck knows who they "met" on Roblox). It's all supposed to be controlled by parent accounts but kids are brilliant at getting around any safeguards. I mean, ask the kid how old they are ffs, that'll work.

I mean, a lot of this is probably driven by puberty and being a teenager but social media makes it 10 times worse. Constant arguments and stormings off over it. Sick of it,  I hate these companies.  

 

Not wanting to add to things but did you see the headlines about Roblox yesterday? There was an article on the guardian. 

[Christmas Tree 4580]

On 15/10/2024 at 17:33, Renton said:

 

I'm in the process of losing weight. I nudging obese levels on the BMI scale which for me was the time to think seriously about losing weight. I've lost 14 kg since April (about 2 stone) and am on target to get down to 82 Kg by next April which will put me at the top end of the normal range. I intend to stay there. Fuck me its hard though. The only way you can do it is through calorie control, burn more than you use and be obsessive about it. I walk on average 15,000 steps a day now but exercise is only a small part of it, 20% to be exact. The rest is all about changing your diet. I've massively cut down on carbs and eat a lot of salad and fruits. It's fucking expensive though and takes will power. 

 

I just don't know if these are governmental responsibilities. How are they going to subsidise fresh food and make it accessible? Who is going to pay for leisure centres? Ozempic (Semaglutide) is very effective but it's long-term safety and efficacy is not known, I can easily imagine rebound effects after stopping treatment being disastrous. Long story short, I think you're right but it feels we need some kind of joined up thinking here to promote healthiness more as a concept. Again, New Labour were more into preventative treatments but Cameron scrapped these initiatives.  

Well done on the weight loss. Just hit 2 off myself down to 12-10. Still want at least another stone off.

 

Calorie counting all the way and still able to have nice stuff.

[Gemmill 43622]

We're gonna have to start having Toontastic Slimmer of the Month. 

[Dazzler 9057]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

We're gonna have to start having Toontastic Slimmer of the Month. 

Count me out. I’m expanding at a greater rate than the universe.

[Renton 20826]

3 hours ago, Gemmill said:

 

Not wanting to add to things but did you see the headlines about Roblox yesterday? There was an article on the guardian. 

 

Just read that now. Aye, it highlights exactly the concerns I have. Roblox is supposed to be an innocent platform for young kids but any creep can join. It also has a virtual currency, Robucks, which kids want to use to buy virtual goods. Of course, the exchange is with real currency. 

Fuck all this shit, hours of our lives trying to keep the kids on the straight and narrow, but they end up addicted anyway and at risk from paedos.

I love technology but the way it is being used is rank. 

[Christmas Tree 4580]

12 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Just read that now. Aye, it highlights exactly the concerns I have. Roblox is supposed to be an innocent platform for young kids but any creep can join. It also has a virtual currency, Robucks, which kids want to use to buy virtual goods. Of course, the exchange is with real currency. 

Fuck all this shit, hours of our lives trying to keep the kids on the straight and narrow, but they end up addicted anyway and at risk from paedos.

I love technology but the way it is being used is rank. 

My two penneth going back 21 years of teenage parenting, you are fighting a losing battle thinking you can safeguard your kids online. Best you can do (which I’m sure you know), is to point out the dangers, add on the parent controls that are there and install spyware.  

 

I’ve been through various online situations with all four and just when you have one app covered, a new one pops up. I tend to find that on the whole, if you can let them know you “trust them” after giving them a few examples of what can happen, then it usually works out.

 

Like all parents, one day in the future, they’ll sit and have a pint with you and tell you all the crazy shit they did and you’ll be thankful you never knew  

 

It’s a tough gig worrying about your kids and no matter how old they get, it never stops….

 

It goes from who they are talking to online, to do they smell of smoke or booze, are they using contraception, have you had your breaks on your car fixed, are they getting their boiler serviced, have they checked the batteries in their smoke detector and on and on  

 

Good luck!