Dazzler 8314 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 14 minutes ago, Gemmill said: Who the fuck are they talking to? And where? How frequently? Do I need to bring my car keys? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 41272 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 16 minutes ago, Gemmill said: That blokes name sounds like a drunk mate asking you what’s up? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3123 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 8 hours ago, Renton said: I've no problems with the terminology "tough decisions". Decisions in government are difficult, there are tradeoffs with everything. They've inherited an apalling situation: Huge debt (about 4x that the cons inherited, close to 100% GDP), a significant deficit at a time when interest rates are relatively high.* Highest taxation rates since WW2. Flatlined productivity. Worse standard of life than in 2010. Acute and long-term housing crisis. Fucked infrastructure, can't even build a simple railway any more. Cut off from our trading block, huge Brexit liabilities. Record immigration. Shambolic public services. Literally, none of them working properly. External threats from Russia and the US (if Trump wins). Deteriorating ME situation. Environmental crisis, polluted waterways, climate change. That's literally just off the top of my head. So far on the negatiVe they have cancelled the luxury of building a tunnel under Stone Henge and taken winter fuel payments away from relatively wealthy pensioners. That's it. * Why is this important? Because we are spending £89 billion quid on debt interest repayments alone. More than education and defence budgets combined. So when Reeve's talks about cutting the deficit and balancing the books, it is not because she wants to inflict an idealogical austerity on us. It's because the country is currently wasting billions of pounds paying interest that could be used for public services. We are having similar issues here since our version of the tories got the arse last election. The moment Labor took power the Murdoch media, and the like, started in on them, quickly forgetting that it was their right wing cunts that had left the new government with the worst debt the country had ever seen, But the other huge cavaet, that no one wants to mention, is that the Liberal cunts (aka Aust tories) had sold or nationalised everything they could over the previous 12 years they were ruining the country. So the government has lost the ability to earn revenue outside of taxes and tarrifs. And this has occured across all three tiers of government (Federal/State/Local) in Australia, so things that should be helping support social services and shouldn't cost the earth, are now in the hands of corporations who are just ripping people off. I'm assuming GB is the same, as like here health/education/social services are meant to be the priority of government. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16474 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 https://www.theguardian.com/money/article/2024/aug/23/martin-lewis-calls-for-rethink-over-plans-to-limit-winter-fuel-payments?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other I think I get why Reeves cut the WFA to just those receiving pension credits. Pensioners are unlikely to vote Tory and in 4.86 years time at least half of them will be too dead to vote Tory. So politically there’s not a lot of risk in it and the old “it’s because of a 20 billion black hole that those bastards tories hid at the back of the cupboard” routine will be rolled out by Labour front benchers being asked to defend it. There’s also “pain now, exchequer giveaway later” angle for the budgets before the election in 2029. In spite of all that it remains the most motherfuckingly dumb, ignorant, blind to the feelings of others, contemptible and just plain cuntish decisions taken in the first month of any government that I can remember. What the fuck were they thinking picking on fucking pensioners? Why couldn’t they mildly levy the City of London? Not many fuckin Labour voters among those cunts is there?… and now this… 🤦♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16474 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 This cunt is bought and paid for too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 19264 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42458 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 I was listening to Tim Montgomerie saying that he has friends that use their winter fuel allowance every year to buy a really nice bottle of wine for themselves. There'll be LOADS of people that absolutely don't need it. As long as they ensure that everyone that should get pension credits, gets pension credits, then I don't have a problem with it at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16474 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 2 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I was listening to Tim Montgomerie saying that he has friends that use their winter fuel allowance every year to buy a really nice bottle of wine for themselves. There'll be LOADS of people that absolutely don't need it. As long as they ensure that everyone that should get pension credits, gets pension credits, then I don't have a problem with it at all. Are your folks affected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 33985 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Yeah. That’s where he gets it from 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42458 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Just now, PaddockLad said: Are your folks affected? I actually don't know. My mam probably is, my dad probably isn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 8314 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 16 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I actually don't know. My mam probably is, my dad probably isn't. Fucking hell, how big is their house? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16474 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 13 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I actually don't know. My mam probably is, my dad probably isn't. I hadn’t thought too much about it till I saw about the price cap going up this morning. I would’ve annihilated the tories for picking on those on benefits. This is the same. They’ve got 3/4 of the media against them and they’re more than capable of starting to turn those deserted the tories in July back again, just waiting for someone who’s not a raving fuckin lunatic to galvanise them. It took Starmer 4 years. I can’t believe they’ve been so short sighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29419 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Isn’t the point that they’re taking it off people who don’t need it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42458 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 I think the concern is that only a fraction of those that are entitled to pension credits actually know they're entitled to pension credits. So they're missing out on that, AND they'll miss out on the WFA as a result. Labour's job now is to go all out with an ad campaign to make sure that there's a.big uptick in those getting pension credits, to ensure the WFA thing doesn't affect the worst off. The triple lock has just resulted in an 8.5% increase in pensions in April though, following on from a 10.1% increase in April 2023. Pensioners are being protected by that. I'm not saying there won't be people made worse off by this that can't really afford to be made worse off, but I don't think just blanket handing out the WFA to ALL pensioners is the answer either. You're handing it to some incredibly wealthy people who won't even notice it hit their bank account. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16474 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 7 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I'm not saying there won't be people made worse off by this that can't really afford to be made worse off, but I don't think just blanket handing out the WFA to ALL pensioners is the answer either. You're handing it to some incredibly wealthy people who won't even notice it hit their bank account. This is it. The criteria should be completely different as Martin moneydude has said this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20356 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 The triple lock has broken the pension system. State pensions have risen massively compared with wages in since 2010. The Tories bribing their electorate, and did a lot of pensioners give a shit about the people who were actually working to pay it for them? Not many did. And they voted Tory time and time again. We can't afford the triple lock and WFHA. It's logical conclusion would be pensioners "earning" more than full time workers with families. Will any of us benefit? Will we fuck. Pension age is rising to 68 at a time expected life span is now falling. Fuck rich pensioners with no mortgage and boomer gold plated private pensions top ups. Redistribute wealth to the workers and children for a change. Go out on an afternoon in Newcastle on your work break. Place is packed out with pensioners enjoying drinks and senior specials. Younger people sighing as they pass them on their way back to work as the pensioners tut about how lazy the younger generation are. The working generation are literally paying their triple locked pensions. Oh aye, then visit M&S! Well done Rachael Reeves. 👏 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 23 minutes ago, Renton said: The triple lock has broken the pension system. State pensions have risen massively compared with wages in since 2010. The Tories bribing their electorate, and did a lot of pensioners give a shit about the people who were actually working to pay it for them? Not many did. And they voted Tory time and time again. We can't afford the triple lock and WFHA. It's logical conclusion would be pensioners "earning" more than full time workers with families. Will any of us benefit? Will we fuck. Pension age is rising to 68 at a time expected life span is now falling. Fuck rich pensioners with no mortgage and boomer gold plated private pensions top ups. Redistribute wealth to the workers and children for a change. Go out on an afternoon in Newcastle on your work break. Place is packed out with pensioners enjoying drinks and senior specials. Younger people sighing as they pass them on their way back to work as the pensioners tut about how lazy the younger generation are. The working generation are literally paying their triple locked pensions. Oh aye, then visit M&S! Well done Rachael Reeves. 👏 Completely support both the point and the anger with which it was delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16474 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) Ok, time to come clean and say this was prompted by my mother in law. Her and FIL basically live on a bit of equity release from their paid up mortgage. They’re a million fuckin miles from what some are portraying on here. The equity release is for bills and to pay for pretty much their only pleasure in life their dog. I’ve never known them in 13 years to have a weeks holiday anywhere. A few days here and there. She’s in bits about the energy price cap increase on top of losing WFA. Then there’s the newly widowed mum of my mate. Ken was a self employed labourer till he had to give up due to MS. Then he got dementia. Their savings were all gone a decade ago. Theyre probably in a “squeezed middle” sector, not poor buy now where near some of the things only the truly well off are doing with their allowance . My father in law was a store man. He wasn’t anywhere near a final salary pension scheme . The criteria needs to change to just include the already well off. At the moment it’s far too narrow. it’s going to hurt a lot more people than it won’t affect and people below pension age will make a political judgement on them because of it at the ballot box. Not saying it’s political suicide at this point but those persuaded to vote for Starmer maybe won’t forget… Edited August 23 by PaddockLad 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20356 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 2 hours ago, PaddockLad said: Ok, time to come clean and say this was prompted by my mother in law. Her and FIL basically live on a bit of equity release from their paid up mortgage. They’re a million fuckin miles from what some are portraying on here. The equity release is for bills and to pay for pretty much their only pleasure in life their dog. I’ve never known them in 13 years to have a weeks holiday anywhere. A few days here and there. She’s in bits about the energy price cap increase on top of losing WFA. Then there’s the newly widowed mum of my mate. Ken was a self employed labourer till he had to give up due to MS. Then he got dementia. Their savings were all gone a decade ago. Theyre probably in a “squeezed middle” sector, not poor buy now where near some of the things only the truly well off are doing with their allowance . My father in law was a store man. He wasn’t anywhere near a final salary pension scheme . The criteria needs to change to just include the already well off. At the moment it’s far too narrow. it’s going to hurt a lot more people than it won’t affect and people below pension age will make a political judgement on them because of it at the ballot box. Not saying it’s political suicide at this point but those persuaded to vote for Starmer maybe won’t forget… Forgive my flippant reply before, it's a minefield and I am truly sorry for the situation of your in-laws and others. It's shite, and there are countless examples of single mums with kids etc that are also shite. On paper I'm loaded and yet I'm struggling to an extent. I just cannot even imagine how some other people manage. I hope, in time, sensible pragmatic policies will make life fairer and better for all including your in laws. I'm not confident though. I am confident the alternative is even worse though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29419 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 11 hours ago, PaddockLad said: Ok, time to come clean and say this was prompted by my mother in law. Her and FIL basically live on a bit of equity release from their paid up mortgage. They’re a million fuckin miles from what some are portraying on here. The equity release is for bills and to pay for pretty much their only pleasure in life their dog. I’ve never known them in 13 years to have a weeks holiday anywhere. A few days here and there. She’s in bits about the energy price cap increase on top of losing WFA. Then there’s the newly widowed mum of my mate. Ken was a self employed labourer till he had to give up due to MS. Then he got dementia. Their savings were all gone a decade ago. Theyre probably in a “squeezed middle” sector, not poor buy now where near some of the things only the truly well off are doing with their allowance . My father in law was a store man. He wasn’t anywhere near a final salary pension scheme . The criteria needs to change to just include the already well off. At the moment it’s far too narrow. it’s going to hurt a lot more people than it won’t affect and people below pension age will make a political judgement on them because of it at the ballot box. Not saying it’s political suicide at this point but those persuaded to vote for Starmer maybe won’t forget… If your in laws don’t have massive savings or a private pension then surely they’re eligible for pension credit? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16474 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 2 hours ago, ewerk said: If your in laws don’t have massive savings or a private pension then surely they’re eligible for pension credit? Apparently not… probably because they did equity release…which was because they didn’t have savings or a private pension… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16474 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 12 hours ago, Renton said: Forgive my flippant reply before, it's a minefield and I am truly sorry for the situation of your in-laws and others. It's shite, and there are countless examples of single mums with kids etc that are also shite. On paper I'm loaded and yet I'm struggling to an extent. I just cannot even imagine how some other people manage. I hope, in time, sensible pragmatic policies will make life fairer and better for all including your in laws. I'm not confident though. I am confident the alternative is even worse though. No need to apologise mate. I hadn’t considered the cost of the triple lock until you & others mentioned it. I can now see it’s part of the reason Reeves went down this road 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42458 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Still shite to hear you've got people close to you that will be struggling though, triple lock or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16474 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gemmill said: Still shite to hear you've got people close to you that will be struggling though, triple lock or not. They’ll be ok. I just think it’s bad politics and picking on a group that there will always be a massive outcry over when there dozens of other ways she could’ve raised funds with probably an equal amount of outrage from the usual quarters but with less sympathy for the “victims” eg CoL, a levy on executive salaries etc… Edited August 24 by PaddockLad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 33985 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 I don’t think it would be that problematic but for the Ofgem announcement / 9% rise in the cap. I’m not sure of the mechanics for setting the cap but Ofgem are an NDPB. It’s a terrible look for the new government apart from the obvious financial strain it’ll cause to the least well off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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