Renton 21612 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: I know it’s all been trailed. I still expected more from a Labour chancellor By trailed, do you mean put into the manifesto, which was a formal promise of what their policy would be? What more did you expect in the first weeks, I am genuinely curious here. Edited August 21 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21612 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) Not only have Labour in record time managed to sort out most strikes happening or threatened on our transport or public sector, they have also successfully quelled a spate of ugly race riots. They've decommissioned the Bibby Stockholm and scrapped Rwanda. They've also stopped arms exports to Israel. In 6 weeks, in the summer holidays. But immediately we have the usual right wingers condemning them for being in the pocket of the unions whilst simultaneously we have the left of the party wailing on abouth how dare they stick to their manifesto. Increasing inheritance tax and putting VAT on private schools? The bastards! It's virtually impossible to govern this country without these two groups kicking off. Well tough shit, Labour won a land slide and there's nothing you can do about it for 5 years, and then the choice will be an extreme right wing tory party in all probability. Apparently who are exactly the same as Labour. Edited August 21 by Renton 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35077 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 The Guardian is a genuinely shite newspaper that does more harm than its (purported) intended good. So it’s of little surprise to see it shit stirring over speculation purely for clicks. Reeves’ actual actions so far, like public sector pay and abandonment of the Civil Service headcount cap suggest the opposite of austerity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 8 minutes ago, Renton said: By trailed, do you mean put into the manifesto, which was a formal promise of what their policy would be? What more did you expect in the first weeks, I am genuinely curious here. I don’t know. I guess I was maybe deluding myself that it was all designed to win votes from small c conservatives (which it did, successfully) but that once in power we might see a shift to the left and some ambition. They did this in 97 when things that weren’t on the manifesto were announced. The honeymoon period is the time to be bold - the prospect of another austerity government depresses me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35077 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 8 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said: that is absolutely pathetic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 I’ll caveat the above post by adding that it hasn’t been bad news and sorting out the junior doctor’s pay was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35077 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: I don’t know. I guess I was maybe deluding myself that it was all designed to win votes from small c conservatives (which it did, successfully) but that once in power we might see a shift to the left and some ambition. They did this in 97 when things that weren’t on the manifesto were announced. The honeymoon period is the time to be bold - the prospect of another austerity government depresses me. You do know it’s the summer parliamentary recess and most ministers are on holiday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 minute ago, Alex said: You do know it’s the summer parliamentary recess and most ministers are on holiday? lazy twats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21612 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: I don’t know. I guess I was maybe deluding myself that it was all designed to win votes from small c conservatives (which it did, successfully) but that once in power we might see a shift to the left and some ambition. They did this in 97 when things that weren’t on the manifesto were announced. The honeymoon period is the time to be bold - the prospect of another austerity government depresses me. Like what? Seriously, I don't remember them doing anything they didn't say they would do. It's pretty much well regarded Labour were remarkably unambitious in their first term, after inheriting a much, much better economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5218 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 I'm still reserving judgement. There have been things I've appreciated (strikes, quick handling of riots etc) and things I'm wary of (this does sound like the beginnings of a return to austerity to me) but I'm prepared to wait and see. 10 minutes ago, Renton said: It's virtually impossible to govern this country without these two groups kicking off. Well tough shit, Labour won a land slide and there's nothing you can do about it for 5 years, and then the choice will be an extreme right wing tory party in all probability. Apparently who are exactly the same as Labour. I do wonder though, when in your mind is the right time for anyone of a left leaning persuasion to start making demands about what we want to see? It wasn't before the election because 'the priority was getting the Tories out' and it's not now either? I guarantee it won't be at the next GE either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35077 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I'm still reserving judgement. There have been things I've appreciated (strikes, quick handling of riots etc) and things I'm wary of (this does sound like the beginnings of a return to austerity to me) but I'm prepared to wait and see. I do wonder though, when in your mind is the right time for anyone of a left leaning persuasion to start making demands about what we want to see? It wasn't before the election because 'the priority was getting the Tories out' and it's not now either? I guarantee it won't be at the next GE either. It’s just a good job the hard left united behind them in the run up to the general election and kept quiet. Rather than blaming them for Gaza and encouraging the terminally naive to vote for independent and green candidates. Labour really needs to now prioritise giving those people what they want after all the help they gave in delivering a landslide victory 👍🏻 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30598 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 10 hours ago, NJS said: She's never hinted at any point that they weren't going to do this. So called black hole or not. Of course she did rule out raising CGT for fear of tarnishing her new position of labour being a friend of business so any tax hikes will be for the plebs. Also appointing Kendall to welfare always meant a brutal clampdown was on its way. The article you’re responding to makes clear that she’s considering raising CGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44853 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Also, she never ruled out raising CGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5218 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 8 minutes ago, Alex said: It’s just a good job the hard left united behind them in the run up to the general election and kept quiet. Rather than blaming them for Gaza and encouraging the terminally naive to vote for independent and green candidates. Labour really needs to now prioritise giving those people what they want after all the help they gave in delivering a landslide victory 👍🏻 I see you woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning. Back to the naive line again - for the record I've not once accepted that particular attribute, it seems to be something said by middle aged left leaning centrists to justify their jaded "best we can get" approach to politics. The fact that a lot of the things the 'naive left' want in this country seem to be implemented elsewhere in the world quite easily are of course just the exceptions that prove the rule. "We're a small c conservative country, it's not possible here, blah blah blah..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35077 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I see you woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning. Back to the naive line again - for the record I've not once accepted that particular attribute, it seems to be something said by middle aged left leaning centrists to justify their jaded "best we can get" approach to politics. The fact that a lot of the things the 'naive left' want in this country seem to be implemented elsewhere in the world quite easily are of course just the exceptions that prove the rule. "We're a small c conservative country, it's not possible here, blah blah blah..." I meant the wankers who follow Owen Jones et al and people like him and what he espoused. That said, you might consider why the people who didn’t even vote for Labour are unlikely to be at the front of the queue in terms of getting what they want Edited August 21 by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30598 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Everyone knows that elections are won from the fringe left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21612 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 24 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I'm still reserving judgement. There have been things I've appreciated (strikes, quick handling of riots etc) and things I'm wary of (this does sound like the beginnings of a return to austerity to me) but I'm prepared to wait and see. I do wonder though, when in your mind is the right time for anyone of a left leaning persuasion to start making demands about what we want to see? It wasn't before the election because 'the priority was getting the Tories out' and it's not now either? I guarantee it won't be at the next GE either. The right time is through exerting pressure in the usual way during parliament. If they don't want to toe the line at elections, do what Owen Jones did, fuck off and piss from outside the tent or better yet, form your own party. AT the moment Labour should concentrate on enacting what they promised in their manifesto, and I don't see any evidence they're not doing this. Isn't this a more fundamentally honest way to behave, sya compared with the tories who simply ignored 95% of their pledges? So again, what do the left want? The only thing I do find disappointing is not lifting the cap on child benefit. But again, they said they wouldn't. I am hopeful that will be lifted later in parliament however. I also hope we will see some well planned infrastructure projects. I don't expect this in 6 weeks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5218 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 minutes ago, Alex said: I meant the wankers who follow Owen Jones et al and people like him and what he espoused. That said, you might consider why the people who didn’t even vote for Labour are unlikely to be at the front of the queue in terms of getting what they want I do view it from the other side tbh as I said beforehand - if people like myself are literally never calling out for things we want, how is anyone to know that there is demand for it? I honestly don't see what the harm in people voicing their opinions is, especially now that Labour have won and you've got everything you wanted for the next few years. Tbh mate, you likely even agree with 99% of everything they believe in. So you don't even have a philosophical difference on this, we just have a situation where you've accepted that this is the best we can get, and they haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35077 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 If you really want I could bore the tits off you with tales from the inner workings of central government. About how the new ministers don’t even understand their jobs or departments yet. How the former Tory ministers who are still MPs are such sad, bitter creatures that they have spent the summer writing PQs on unimportant matters but which their expertise means they know will be awkward to address. How a basket case of a trade union is happy to delay the pay award to hundreds of thousands of people because it’s more arsed about Gaza fundraising posters on notice boards and I could go on. But there isn’t a meme for it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5218 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 5 minutes ago, Renton said: The right time is through exerting pressure in the usual way during parliament. If they don't want to toe the line at elections, do what Owen Jones did, fuck off and piss from outside the tent or better yet, form your own party. AT the moment Labour should concentrate on enacting what they promised in their manifesto, and I don't see any evidence they're not doing this. Isn't this a more fundamentally honest way to behave, sya compared with the tories who simply ignored 95% of their pledges? So again, what do the left want? The only thing I do find disappointing is not lifting the cap on child benefit. But again, they said they wouldn't. I am hopeful that will be lifted later in parliament however. I also hope we will see some well planned infrastructure projects. I don't expect this in 6 weeks though. I mean I was told on here for years in the run up to this that Labour were keeping their cards close to their chest, that they were saying what they had to do in order to win, but that them winning would be transformative. That they just said what they needed to say to win, but they'd do untold good once in power. I knew it was bollocks, so I'm not surprised and am actually judging them as fairly as I can do given that I never believed any of that shit to start with, but I think what the left are doing is making clear to people that this notion was a lie. Besides, you don't even care what the left are saying. They're holding power to account as best they can, just view them as a counter balance to the right wing noise. It's not hurting anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5218 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 minute ago, Alex said: If you really want I could bore the tits off you with tales from the inner workings of central government. About how the new ministers don’t even understand their jobs or departments yet. How the former Tory ministers who are still MPs are such sad, bitter creatures that they have spent the summer writing PQs on unimportant matters but which their expertise means they know will be awkward to address. How a basket case of a trade union is happy to delay the pay award to hundreds of thousands of people because it’s more arsed about Gaza fundraising posters on notice boards and I could go on. But there isn’t a meme for it Actually I'd find that quite interesting if you can be bothered, especially the trade union one. I'm genuinely always open to improving my outlook with relevant information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5218 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 12 minutes ago, ewerk said: Everyone knows that elections are won from the fringe left. Steady on princess, you're officially on the left of me based on that conversation the other week. You came flying out of the blocks at Labour, I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21612 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 The way we run our parliament and deomcracy is fucked. Too adverserial, too dishonest, too short term. Social care constantly kicked into the long grass. We do need fundamental change which I don't think we will get under Starmer unfortunately. I've always thought deomocratic reform was the most important thing to fix. I don't see anyone from the left with any answers though, or any brain cells to spare unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44853 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 11 minutes ago, Renton said: I also hope we will see some well planned infrastructure projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35077 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I do view it from the other side tbh as I said beforehand - if people like myself are literally never calling out for things we want, how is anyone to know that there is demand for it? I honestly don't see what the harm in people voicing their opinions is, especially now that Labour have won and you've got everything you wanted for the next few years. Tbh mate, you likely even agree with 99% of everything they believe in. So you don't even have a philosophical difference on this, we just have a situation where you've accepted that this is the best we can get, and they haven't. I’m not sure what exact philosophical things you’re alluding to and I would suggest you don’t know the first thing about me if you think I just accept everything is as good as it gets. But I will call out disingenuous grifters and their band of idiotic followers when I feel they are achieving the square root of fuck all in terms of making lives better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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