Politics

[Monkeys Fist 42428]

I’m not opposed to the idea of a modernised form of national service* tbh, but this is clearly just a desperate vomit of nonsense from a party in its death throes. 
 

* I’d say that military service doesn’t/shouldnt even need to be a part of it- 12 months of some form of community based work. 
Sports coaching, library work, grounds and maintenance, community catering work, conservation and environmental work etc. 

It doesn’t even need to involve Plod, NHS, or emergency services work, although that could be an option. 
Make it from ages 16-20 for example. 

[Rayvin 5220]

1 minute ago, Monkeys Fist said:

I’m not opposed to the idea of a modernised form of national service* tbh, but this is clearly just a desperate vomit of nonsense from a party in its death throes. 
 

* I’d say that military service doesn’t/shouldnt even need to be a part of it- 12 months of some form of community based work. 
Sports coaching, library work, grounds and maintenance, community catering work, conservation and environmental work etc. 

It doesn’t even need to involve Plod, NHS, or emergency services work, although that could be an option. 
Make it from ages 16-20 for example. 

 

I'd agree with this too, along with an educational focus on civics in school - maybe even tying the two things together somehow.

 

But also agree that this is just desperation from the Tories.

[Renton 21621]

I'm 1000%  against any form of "mandatory voluntary" service, a complete oxymoron. Fuck that, it's hard enough being a kid anyway. The Tories hate young people. 

[Howmanheyman 33182]

5 minutes ago, Renton said:

I'm 1000%  against any form of "mandatory voluntary" service, a complete oxymoron. Fuck that, it's hard enough being a kid anyway. The Tories hate young people. 

 

Introduce of any of that shit for my girls and I'm going to hunt you down Liam Neeson style.

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

I'm 1000%  against any form of "mandatory voluntary" service, a complete oxymoron. Fuck that, it's hard enough being a kid anyway. The Tories hate young people. 

Snap. Forcing kids into the armed forces when we haven't been involved in a war we haven't instigated ourselves since 1945 is fucking mental. 
 

There's no doubt we have a growing generation of feckless kids in inner city areas, but forcing them into the army for 12 months isn't going to undo 18 years of shit parenting and growing up in poverty.

[Howmanheyman 33182]

[ewerk 30602]

1 minute ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Snap. Forcing kids into the armed forces when we haven't been involved in a war we haven't instigated ourselves since 1945 is fucking mental.

I never had you down for a Nazi sympathiser.

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

I never had you down for a Nazi sympathiser.

 good point. But it further reinforces my point tbf. 

[PaddockLad 17256]

53 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/26/it-is-foolish-and-self-indulgent-for-the-anti-starmer-left-to-split-the-labour-vote?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

@Rayvin

 

Have you read this? I'm not being a cunt btw, your vote is your vote. 

I’ve read it, whilst I don’t doubt what she presents and that the “popular” left wing eg Owen Jones et al are fuckin twats it is very difficult at this point to see any hope for real change with a Starmer government. Am actually keenly anticipating the details of the Labour manifesto to see if they’re going to come up with anything innovative or original with mass appeal. I won’t be holding my breath mind… Starmer will be a huge upgrade decency wise on anything Tory but he’s got to try to properly change things…. 

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

Not sure how happy a chunk of young men in NI are going to be when they are forced into national service with the British Army btw 

[Howmanheyman 33182]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Monkeys Fist 42428]

46 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I'd agree with this too, along with an educational focus on civics in school - maybe even tying the two things together somehow.

 

But also agree that this is just desperation from the Tories.

Aye, if it was thought out and implemented by sensible adults not motivated by profit or political grandstanding, I’ve thought for a long while that  it would be a positive thing. 
 

So many , currently absent, community projects could benefit hugely from the investment and participation. 
 

For example, community kitchens, if done right, could help address the massive amount of food poverty we have today, and perhaps remove the attached stigma that goes with it. 
Basic cookery classes, breakfast clubs, lunch clubs etc. 

 

Parks and nature reserves, beach wardens, sports coaching/summer classes etc, community libraries. 
There’s loads of things it could be a very positive influence for, without feeling like some kind of penal sentence. 

 

The point being, only things which contribute to enrichment of communities should be able to recruit National Service intakes. 
 

Sending spotty youths off to some Army camp for a year will do fuck all for them or their local community imo. 

[Monkeys Fist 42428]

I’ve not thought too deeply on the subject tbh, but the mandatory part could even be addressed by having it as an option in the now-mandatory education until 18yrs old. 
 

If someone wants to leave education at 16, 12 months of participation in a branch of service of their choice at that age could be a positive way in to the world of employment, whilst giving them a chance to try something off their normal radar, and they get to be independent at 17, a year earlier than those that choose to stay in education. 
 

Also, it’s worth remembering that the National Service of old wasn’t a volunteer scheme- people were paid for their time in whatever they did. 
Any new version must also be paid work for the participants- you could even include some basics lessons on personal finances management. 
 

Anyway, the Tories can fuck off as I’ve put more thought in to these few posts than they have with their announcement. 

[ewerk 30602]

14 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Not sure how happy a chunk of young men in NI are going to be when they are forced into national service with the British Army btw 

Aye, forcing a load of pissed off Irish kids into military training might not be the best idea.

[ewerk 30602]

14 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Aye, if it was thought out and implemented by sensible adults not motivated by profit or political grandstanding, I’ve thought it would be a positive thing. 
 

So many , currently absent, community projects could benefit hugely from the investment and participation. 
 

For example, community kitchens, if done right, could help address the massive amount of food poverty we have today, and perhaps remove the attached stigma that goes with it. 
Basic cookery classes, breakfast clubs, lunch clubs etc. 

 

Parks and nature reserves, beach wardens, sports coaching/summer classes etc, community libraries. 
There’s loads of things it could be a very positive influence for, without feeling like some kind of penal sentence. 

 

The point being, only things which contribute to enrichment of communities should be able to recruit National Service intakes. 
 

Sending spotty youths off to some Army camp for a year will do fuck all for them or their local community imo. 

I barely do the job I’m paid to do now. Can you imagine how tough it’s going to be to get a group of completely unmotivated teenagers to do anything?

[Monkeys Fist 42428]

27 minutes ago, Renton said:

I'm 1000%  against any form of "mandatory voluntary" service, a complete oxymoron. Fuck that, it's hard enough being a kid anyway. The Tories hate young people. 

I meant to reference this above, but previous National Service wasn’t voluntary work, you were paid an equivalent rate of pay as “regulars”. 
 

[Monkeys Fist 42428]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I barely do the job I’m paid to do now. Can you imagine how tough it’s going to be to get a group of completely unmotivated teenagers to do anything?

There are certain holiday companies where 90% of their “coalface” workforce are teenagers, working 6 days a week minimum for relatively low pay. 
 

I would, however, banish accountancy firms from any future NS programme on the grounds of terminal boredom. 

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

19 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

There are certain holiday companies where 90% of their “coalface” workforce are teenagers, working 6 days a week minimum for relatively low pay. 
 

I would, however, banish accountancy firms from any future NS programme on the grounds of terminal boredom. 

Cleverley announced this morning that if you take the "one weekend a month" volunteering option, then it's unpaid. 

[Monkeys Fist 42428]

3 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Cleverley announced this morning that if you take the "one weekend a month" volunteering option, then it's unpaid. 

 Not something anyone of potential qualifying age needs to worry about though, is it, since the Muppet version he’s on about won’t be happening? 
 

I hope they don’t persist with this, and choose some other half-arsed desperate idea to help them on their way out, tbh. 
 

 

I’d hate to see the idea become toxic by association with them, since I honestly believe it’s got potential. 

[ewerk 30602]

 

Right @Toonpack, time to grab your rifle.

[RobinRobin 11263]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

 

Right @Toonpack, time to grab your rifle.

[Renton 21621]

2 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

I’ve read it, whilst I don’t doubt what she presents and that the “popular” left wing eg Owen Jones et al are fuckin twats it is very difficult at this point to see any hope for real change with a Starmer government. Am actually keenly anticipating the details of the Labour manifesto to see if they’re going to come up with anything innovative or original with mass appeal. I won’t be holding my breath mind… Starmer will be a huge upgrade decency wise on anything Tory but he’s got to try to properly change things…. 

 

New Labour didn't do much in the first term either. Labour need a decade to make a really positive change. 

[Renton 21621]

2 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said:

 Not something anyone of potential qualifying age needs to worry about though, is it, since the Muppet version he’s on about won’t be happening? 
 

I hope they don’t persist with this, and choose some other half-arsed desperate idea to help them on their way out, tbh. 
 

 

I’d hate to see the idea become toxic by association with them, since I honestly believe it’s got potential. 

 

You cant make schemes like this mandatory though, a quick walk through Meadowell will tell you why. A lot of kids in that bracket need proper paid jobs to help them get through university. When I worked in a supermarket there were loads of kids saving their money for Uni. It's the poorer middle class and working class kids who will take the hit here, the Eton lot will be okay. 

This is as much bollocks as Cameron's big society. I'd love to be in a position to do voluntary work. But nowadays everybody needs to graft like fuck just to keep a roof over their heads. I can't tell you how angry I am at how the Tories have treated the younger generation. Robbed them of experiencing Europe. Taxed them at a marginal rate of over 50% when they graduate. Often made it impossible for them to own homes or even have kids of their own. And now this. Fuck you you tory cunts, the reckoning is coming. 

[Monkeys Fist 42428]

18 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

You cant make schemes like this mandatory though, a quick walk through Meadowell will tell you why. A lot of kids in that bracket need proper paid jobs to help them get through university. When I worked in a supermarket there were loads of kids saving their money for Uni. It's the poorer middle class and working class kids who will take the hit here, the Eton lot will be okay. 

This is as much bollocks as Cameron's big society. I'd love to be in a position to do voluntary work. But nowadays everybody needs to graft like fuck just to keep a roof over their heads. I can't tell you how angry I am at how the Tories have treated the younger generation. Robbed them of experiencing Europe. Taxed them at a marginal rate of over 50% when they graduate. Often made it impossible for them to own homes or even have kids of their own. And now this. Fuck you you tory cunts, the reckoning is coming. 

You’re making the assumption I’m advocating that it’s voluntary I.e. unpaid. 
 

I’ve said it must be the opposite to even get past the first “idea” stage. 
 

Edit; for it to work, it has be properly funded by the state, it’s basically a Socialist concept- state funded work for the good of the community and participants.

 

I wouldn’t call it National Service either. 

[Renton 21621]

12 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

You’re making the assumption I’m advocating that it’s voluntary I.e. unpaid. 
 

I’ve said it must be the opposite to even get past the first “idea” stage. 
 

Edit; for it to work, it has be properly funded by the state, it’s basically a Socialist concept- state funded work for the good of the community and participants.

 

I wouldn’t call it National Service either. 

 

Let's be honest though, if its paid, who's paying for it? And the last thing the army, NHS or anyone else want is thousands of scrote charvers who don't want to be there filling their ranks. 

Anyway, it's just hilariously unworkable. Feels to me that Sunak is actively trying to throw this election.