Gemmill 42792 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5129 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Renton said: This is just nonsense. People always vote with their pockets. Which will be very empty. People failed to vote with their pockets through austerity 1.0. Do you not remember the Cameron years and how we got here, I sometimes wonder if it's become obscured by the chaos of Brexit. Like I said, I genuinely hope you're right and we see a comfortable, easy Labour majority. If I was the Labour strategist though, I'd now be reaching across to the Lib Dems and SNP to lay the groundwork for that electoral pact. 2 more fucking years, and I'd dared to dream. Johnson is a disappointment in every conceivable sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20485 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I reckon they'll rally around him because they always do. Who rally around who? This just seems an odd thing to say. The tories have been at each others throats for years. Sunak is an anathema toany of them. Also, he has zero appeal to the red wall. 🧱 Edited October 23, 2022 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20485 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, Rayvin said: People failed to vote with their pockets through austerity 1.0. Do you not remember the Cameron years and how we got here, I sometimes wonder if it's become obscured by the chaos of Brexit. Like I said, I genuinely hope you're right and we see a comfortable, easy Labour majority. If I was the Labour strategist though, I'd now be reaching across to the Lib Dems and SNP to lay the groundwork for that electoral pact. 2 more fucking years, and I'd dared to dream. Johnson is a disappointment in every conceivable sense. This isn't 2010 again mate. Honestly. You think Sunak is going to reverse a 30 point deficit? He's really not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5129 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Renton said: Who rally around who? This just seems an odd thing to say. The tories have been at each others throats for years. Sunak is an anathema toany of them. Also, he has zero appeal to the red wall. 🧱 All the Tories will rally around Sunak because it's what they do time and time again. I mean what are you really saying here, that you think the government will collapse in the next two years? I don't think you are but if it doesn't then yes, they've rallied around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5129 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Just now, Renton said: This isn't 2010 again mate. Honestly. You think Sunak is going to reverse a 30 point deficit? He's really not. The polls have him taking 11 points out of that just by taking control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42792 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Let's just wait and see. Sunak comes with his own problems. He's an incredibly wealthy bloke who now needs to convince the public that we're all in it together etc etc. Renton's point is right though - people didn't get hit in their own pockets by Austerity 1.0 in anything like the same way that they're getting hammered now. And there's more to come. I'm sure Sunak will get a bounce, but there's not much chance of him maintaining it with everything that's still to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5129 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 I just have no hope left - total obliteration via that blonde fuckwit was about all I had. Wonder what will be left in 2 years. But yes, let's see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42792 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Mordaunt is still trying to hit the 100 btw. Uphill battle but if she gets there and it goes to the membership, we might still get the fractured party that Johnson was threatening to serve up. Not as fundamentally fucked but still pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginolaandtonic 169 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 If Sunak gets it then Labour are going to struggle IMO. They’ve become very identity politics driven over the last 10 years but it’s going to be hard for them to argue that they’re the party of diversity when the “facists” opposite have had three female PMs and the first ethnic minority PM. If Sunak steadies the economy (and I think he will) then I don’t see a Labour win being a formality at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5129 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ginolaandtonic said: If Sunak gets it then Labour are going to struggle IMO. They’ve become very identity politics driven over the last 10 years but it’s going to be hard for them to argue that they’re the party of diversity when the “facists” opposite have had three female PMs and the first ethnic minority PM. If Sunak steadies the economy (and I think he will) then I don’t see a Labour win being a formality at all. I agree with bits of this but not sure about the identity politics bit. IMO a lot of the noise around that dropped off even before Corbyn, it was something largely attributed to Labour but which isn't actually often visible. What in the Labour manifesto or recent history is particularly digging up identity politics? I think the issue has crossed the aisle again and is now back with the right - everything is woke, it's the evil that never sleeps, etc. Sunak will steady but constrict the economy, but yes that might be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20485 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 31 minutes ago, Rayvin said: All the Tories will rally around Sunak because it's what they do time and time again. I mean what are you really saying here, that you think the government will collapse in the next two years? I don't think you are but if it doesn't then yes, they've rallied around him. At best Sunak will be akin to Major in the last years but against the backdrop of auch, much worse economic situation. I disagree Labour need to fear him at all, their front bench shits all over anything Sunak could offer. I do think he will lessen the defeat quite a bit, and I do think Labour should have an unofficial coalition with other progressive parties. But I don't think any politician from either party could get re-elected given the economy they have inherited and the max 2 year period to turn it around. Yet again, I just don't think people know how bad it is and it baffles me they don't. We're going to get poorer at a faster rate than has ever happened in history, and you think people will vote for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5129 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 People voted literally for that very thing in Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20485 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Rayvin said: People voted literally for that very thing in Brexit. Not knowingly. They were told they'd be richer in the future. Now they'll be (very much) poorer in the present, There is no equivalence here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5129 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Renton said: Not knowingly. They were told they'd be richer in the future. Now they'll be (very much) poorer in the present, There is no equivalence here. They were told they'd be poorer last time too. The Tories may not have said it, but plenty of others did. You think the Tories are going to tell them they'll be poorer this time? Look I just can't be bothered anymore - you have faith in something, good for you, I shouldn't try to rob you of that. I'll just be quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20485 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, Rayvin said: You think the Tories are going to tell them they'll be poorer this time? Eh? They already will be poorer this time. Do you think Sunak will persuade them they're somehow rich? Jam tomorrow has its limits too. The tories have lost their Trump card, economic credibility. Last time that happened, they were out of power for 13 years. But aye, the midget billionaire will continue Johnson's legacy on a manifesto of austerity. The same guy who was caught on camera boasting about diverting funds from the North to the home counties. It's not faith mate, it's logic and understanding history. Tories are finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5129 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Renton said: Eh? They already will be poorer this time. Do you think Sunak will persuade them they're somehow rich? Jam tomorrow has its limits too. The tories have lost their Trump card, economic credibility. Last time that happened, they were out of power for 13 years. But aye, the midget billionaire will continue Johnson's legacy on a manifesto of austerity. The same guy who was caught on camera boasting about diverting funds from the North to the home counties. It's not faith mate, it's logic and understanding history. Tories are finished. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6590 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Agree with Renton here. Unless Labour significantly shoot themselves in the foot, they’ve got at least 3 terms ahead of them before the Tories have a hope of getting back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6590 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6590 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42792 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Happy Monday everyone! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3876 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 ARE YOU LISTENING KIER STARMER?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34143 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 9 hours ago, Rayvin said: People failed to vote with their pockets through austerity 1.0. Do you not remember the Cameron years and how we got here, I sometimes wonder if it's become obscured by the chaos of Brexit. Like I said, I genuinely hope you're right and we see a comfortable, easy Labour majority. If I was the Labour strategist though, I'd now be reaching across to the Lib Dems and SNP to lay the groundwork for that electoral pact. 2 more fucking years, and I'd dared to dream. Johnson is a disappointment in every conceivable sense. The difference was, whilst loads of people were impacted by that, many voters were not. It’ll definitely result in the Tories closing the gap because that was inevitable anyway, given the unprecedented gap in the polls. But they can’t escape most people being palpably worse off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34143 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 7 hours ago, Rayvin said: They were told they'd be poorer last time too. The Tories may not have said it, but plenty of others did. You think the Tories are going to tell them they'll be poorer this time? Look I just can't be bothered anymore - you have faith in something, good for you, I shouldn't try to rob you of that. I'll just be quiet. They believed those who said they’d be richer though. I think Gemmill said a while back you can lie to people about the future but you can’t lie about what’s already happened to them (or words to that effect). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42792 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, Alex said: They believed those who said they’d be richer though. I think Gemmill said a while back you can lie to people about the future but you can’t lie about what’s already happened to them (or words to that effect). Aye. Like look at this, and it's only October ffs. The heating's barely needed to go on yet. Rishi can be as dishy as he likes, but you can't tell people that their household finances aren't upside down. They know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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