Politics

[Dr Gloom 21861]

[Gemmill 44539]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

 

Incidentally, this is exactly the same word cloud you get when you ask Quiff what he thinks of TT's mod team. #BringQuiffBack

 

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Gemmill

[Gemmill 44539]

Cunts is asterisked out but it's fairly prominent. 

[Renton 21404]

5 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

BBC at some market in Birmingham talking to some fishmonger: "I can tell you, every body I've spoken to in the past 24 hours is saying the same thing. Return Boris Johnson to Downing Street. He's had his yellow card, but I tell you, he will be giving the Labour Party sleepless nights."

 

Turned the cunt off. 

 

Now is not the time for the BBC to be giving the floor to dopey fucks like this. 

 

Or fucking do it actually, I don't give a shit. Get that silly prick back if you like, the country will be up in arms about it and it'll end the Tories. 

 

This was my point to Gloom. They have been playing endless "Bring Back Boris" vox pops almost to the exclusion of anything else, certainly to the 86% of the country who won't vote tory accroding to that latest poll. I'm trying to work out why they are doing this, but Gloom isn't playing ball any more.  

[Dr Gloom 21861]

10 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Can you list these "moderates"? I can't think of any. Sunak and Hunt are technocrats, but they are far, far to the on the right on the overton window. But the key difference between these and Johnson is that they do not seek to destroy the institutions of the UK in the way he does. They are also relatively honest in their approach. I think you're almost falling into the "they're all the same" trap. That's bullshit, Johnson is our Trump. Labour will comfortably beat any of these candidates, I have 100% confidence in that, but Johnson will degrade and defile politics further given the chance, making it much harder for Labour to reverse the damage. I can't accept this is a good thing. 

 

johnson is worse for the tories and worse for the country. the margin of victory for labour at the general election could be smaller if a grown up such as rishi runs the show for a couple of years 

[Gemmill 44539]

 

 

#BringBackBorisFuckingPlease

 

 

[Rayvin 5188]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Can you list these "moderates"? I can't think of any. Sunak and Hunt are technocrats, but they are far, far to the on the right on the overton window. But the key difference between these and Johnson is that they do not seek to destroy the institutions of the UK in the way he does. They are also relatively honest in their approach. I think you're almost falling into the "they're all the same" trap. That's bullshit, Johnson is our Trump. Labour will comfortably beat any of these candidates, I have 100% confidence in that, but Johnson will degrade and defile politics further given the chance, making it much harder for Labour to reverse the damage. I can't accept this is a good thing. 

 

This is a pointless argument because we disagree on the fundamentals of it. We both agree, I think, that Johnson would be an easier win for Labour than Sunak or Mordaunt.

 

Where we disagree, is on the risk/reward aspect of it. A more competent Tory party is worth the risk in your eyes because they do less damage than Johnson (highly debatable since Johnson would be a lame duck and wouldn't implement the same levels of austerity) and therefore Labour have less to 'repair' when they inevitably win, which you have 100% faith in.

 

I do not have 100% faith in it because that position is absurd in any sense, let alone the asylum of British politics. I'm on about 75% certainty that Labour win either way. So my calculation is fundamentally different to yours in that I have to add in a further 5 years of the Tories as an additional component of risk - and with that in mind, it's close, but I'd prefer Johnson. Their party is the mechanism for devastation, not Johnson. Same as the Republicans are in the US, and not specifically Trump. Do not lose sight of the real enemy in all of this.

 

As I've said for a few weeks now, even with this poll lead I would want an electoral pact. I would want every gun we've got turned on the Tories. We cannot afford to be complacent now, we have to make sure they're put down. I have no clue why you're so laissez faire about it but I don't have it in me, this next election feels like it will be the most important one this country will have for a generation. I have plenty of work to do to build a life for myself that is worth living, I cannot afford to have 7 more years of the Tories, I just can't.

[Renton 21404]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

johnson is worse for the tories and worse for the country. the margin of victory for labour at the general election could be smaller if a grown up such as rishi runs the show for a couple of years 

 

The tories have shown it's not the size of th emajority that counts, its what you do with it. Which is why I'm so pissed off Labour won't take this golden opportunity to bring in constitutional reform and PR and stop this shit happening once and for all. 

[Gemmill 44539]

 

 

Starmer should keep banging this drum. That is fucking outrageous for 44 days. 

 

 

[Renton 21404]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

This is a pointless argument because we disagree on the fundamentals of it. We both agree, I think, that Johnson would be an easier win for Labour than Sunak or Mordaunt.

 

Where we disagree, is on the risk/reward aspect of it. A more competent Tory party is worth the risk in your eyes because they do less damage than Johnson (highly debatable since Johnson would be a lame duck and wouldn't implement the same levels of austerity) and therefore Labour have less to 'repair' when they inevitably win, which you have 100% faith in.

 

I do not have 100% faith in it because that position is absurd in any sense, let alone the asylum of British politics. I'm on about 75% certainty that Labour win either way. So my calculation is fundamentally different to yours in that I have to add in a further 5 years of the Tories as an additional component of risk - and with that in mind, it's close, but I'd prefer Johnson. Their party is the mechanism for devastation, not Johnson. Same as the Republicans are in the US, and not specifically Trump. Do not lose sight of the real enemy in all of this.

 

As I've said for a few weeks now, even with this poll lead I would want an electoral pact. I would want every gun we've got turned on the Tories. We cannot afford to be complacent now, we have to make sure they're put down. I have no clue why you're so laissez faire about it but I don't have it in me, this next election feels like it will be the most important one this country will have for a generation. I have plenty of work to do to build a life for myself that is worth living, I cannot afford to have 7 more years of the Tories, I just can't.

 

There is almost 0% of the tories winning an election now, seriously, relax about it. The only thing that is left is the size of their majority and in reality I think a small majority might be a good thing, might focus minds on the enemy more and require them to align more with minority progressive parties. 

 

But the main thing is, I personally just can't abide the thought of watching that cunt Johnson as PM for 2 years. I find Mordaunt and Sunak put me off me tea less. 

[Gemmill 44539]

Johnson has 51 nominations according to the spreadsheet on the Guido Fawkes website. He's halfway there. 

 

If he gets to 100, he'll be PM next Friday. The only way to stop him would be for Mordaunt and Sunak to swap votes to push him into 3rd place. But that assumes they'd have enough between them, and it's also a really risky strategy for them both. 

[Rayvin 5188]

They said about 60 MPs would go for him so I don't think those of us opposed to his return need to hit the panic button just yet. If he climbs over 70 then I might start to think it happens.

 

Where are you tracking this btw, is it just from random tweets and so on?

[Gemmill 44539]

Just now, Rayvin said:

They said about 60 MPs would go for him so I don't think those of us opposed to his return need to hit the panic button just yet. If he climbs over 70 then I might start to think it happens.

 

Where are you tracking this btw, is it just from random tweets and so on?

 

They've got a spreadsheet here. I think it's based on public declarations but they're also inviting MPs to contact them direct so could be some of that going on. 

 

 

https://order-order.com/

 

 

Anyway the big news is Chisti is throwing his weight behind Sunak. 

 

 

[ewerk 30385]

15 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

This is a pointless argument because we disagree on the fundamentals of it. We both agree, I think, that Johnson would be an easier win for Labour than Sunak or Mordaunt.

I certainly don’t agree with that. The polling on Johnson above is from February. A lot of idiots will look at the situation and see him as coming back with the slate wiped clean and willing to give him another chance. He has something that the others don’t and that’s personality. The public overlooked a lot of his flaws last time and  voted him into power, I wouldn’t put it past them to do the same again.

[Renton 21404]

5 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Johnson has 51 nominations according to the spreadsheet on the Guido Fawkes website. He's halfway there. 

 

If he gets to 100, he'll be PM next Friday. The only way to stop him would be for Mordaunt and Sunak to swap votes to push him into 3rd place. But that assumes they'd have enough between them, and it's also a really risky strategy for them both. 

 

But Sunak and Mordaunt both know the biggest risk is Johnson getting to 100, then it's curtains for them. My question is how they can reliably do the calculations in this short time frame. I think Johnson will get 100 like as they'd think he's the red wallers last hope. He isn't obviously. I also do think he might precipitate a GE pretty quickly. So many tories in the parliamentary hate him. 

[Renton 21404]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

I certainly don’t agree with that. The polling on Johnson above is from February. A lot of idiots will look at the situation and see him as coming back with the slate wiped clean and willing to give him another chance. He has something that the others don’t and that’s personality. The public overlooked a lot of his flaws last time and  voted him into power, I wouldn’t put it past them to do the same again.

This is true. But Johgnson will also continue to fuck things up also, there will be no clean sheet. Also curious to how the markets will react. Part of Johnson's appeal last time was that he spent a fortune on furlough etc. I think he will be much less appealing in atmosphere of extreme austerity. 

[Rayvin 5188]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I certainly don’t agree with that. The polling on Johnson above is from February. A lot of idiots will look at the situation and see him as coming back with the slate wiped clean and willing to give him another chance. He has something that the others don’t and that’s personality. The public overlooked a lot of his flaws last time and  voted him into power, I wouldn’t put it past them to do the same again.

 

I would agree if he had a 6 month run in to the election but he doesn't - it's 2 years. The wheels will be coming off long before that.

 

The public have also consistently accepted the narrative that the Tories know what they're doing with the economy and austerity is a necessary evil.

[Gemmill 44539]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

But Sunak and Mordaunt both know the biggest risk is Johnson getting to 100, then it's curtains for them. My question is how they can reliably do the calculations in this short time frame. I think Johnson will get 100 like as they'd think he's the red wallers last hope. He isn't obviously. I also do think he might precipitate a GE pretty quickly. So many tories in the parliamentary hate him. 

 

I suppose you would have to assume that anyone voting for Sunak or Mordaunt in the first round is vehemently opposed to Johnson. That being the case, it's in the interests of everyone in the Sunak/Mordaunt Venn diagram to work together. 

 

Don't forget as well, Mordaunt has supposedly already contacted Sunak in the last two weeks (pre Hunt) to propose her as PM and him returning as Chancellor (canny cheeky given what happened in the last leadership contest but I suppose that has to be her opening bid), so the two camps may well already be working together. 

 

Although I think the more likely arrangement is Sunak PM and her getting Foreign Secretary or something. 

[ewerk 30385]

I’m not sure that Johnson would implement a period of austerity. He wouldn’t be throwing money around but he won’t want to make unpopular decisions. I think the markets will calm down and moderate borrowing for the cost of living crisis will be allowed.

[spongebob toonpants 3958]

Johnson in power has the best chance of splitting the Tory party and ending them as a political party

 

Also much less likely to hammer the austerity button like the rest of them

 

I don't want any of seemingly "competetant" ones anywhere near power, idiots will seize any chance to give them credit they don't deserve

[Gemmill 44539]

Are we swinging behind Johnson here?

 

My plan this weekend is to try to be a detached observer as much as possible, but I'm gonna find that difficult if I'm trying to will Johnson to 100.

 

I'm away to start posting on the bring back Boris hashtag. 

[wykikitoon 19986]

I like that thing G-Dogg posted with the spreadsheet.  Names A Whip.  He's cheating voting all the time.

[Dr Gloom 21861]

20 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I certainly don’t agree with that. The polling on Johnson above is from February. A lot of idiots will look at the situation and see him as coming back with the slate wiped clean and willing to give him another chance. He has something that the others don’t and that’s personality. The public overlooked a lot of his flaws last time and  voted him into power, I wouldn’t put it past them to do the same again.

 

nah. tories are fucked brah

[Renton 21404]

6 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Are we swinging behind Johnson here?

 

My plan this weekend is to try to be a detached observer as much as possible, but I'm gonna find that difficult if I'm trying to will Johnson to 100.

 

I'm away to start posting on the bring back Boris hashtag. 

 

Absolutely not. The only thing I'd like Johnson to swing on is a fucking noose. I absolutely detest the cunt and don't want him anywhere near the PM job. 

[ewerk 30385]

Who says we don’t need the BBC?