Politics

[Dr Gloom 21924]

[Dr Gloom 21924]

resignation statement in 29 minutes and counting 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Dr Gloom

[Craig 6682]

 

[PaddockLad 17281]

#fakenewsgloom  

[Alex 35095]

Astounding arrogance 

[scoobos 298]

5 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Those people should not be allowed to vote, frankly. They're voting based on nothing.

Wow well its feral on here for Brexit.

 

I've quoted you, but read all the replies , so other comments are included.

 

That's what the landed aristocracy said , or what men said about women prior to the suffragetes.

There shouldn't have been a referendum,  but once there is NO ONE should be excluded from the vote - it annoys me that over 16's cant vote.  It's one of those topics you elect a government to make decisions for on your behalf, hoping that they are qualified to do so. But that's different from saying people shouldnt be allowed to vote.

They are voting based on a campaign - if the campaign is bent so be it - but the electoral process wasn't - why call it bent because it doesn't go your way? That's what Trump did!!

 

I think criminal charges should have faced loads of the Leave campaign, it was utterly corrupt.

I'm very pro europe as I've said  - but to try and overturn a stupid election result, by holding another one in 2 years time is not the answer - we made our bed, should stand by democracy and do the will of the people.

Problem is, the will of the people seemed to be "Stop darkies coming in" for a lot of people, because they've been indoctrinated for years that illegal immigrants are everywhere - while the secret sauce is that immigration from non EU countries has been the underpinning strategy of the Tories for a decade at least. Cheap labour wins all.

 

Finally, I wasn't in country , so educate me if there's something I'm missing - but the referendum wasnt FPTP - it was pure democracy, right? and a majority did vote in favor to leave - how is that bent?

 

 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

I would say unbelievable but nothing surprises me anymore  

[scoobos 298]

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

I'm enjoying this as much as most - but ... Personally I keep perspective that we don't want to start evangelising the IMF - these are evil fuckers - they ousted a democratically elected government and took control of a country (Greece), resulting in deaths from hospital closures and people routinely eating out of bins - in the name of "unacceptable debt" when Greece's debt as a proportion of GDP was lower than MANY other countries at the time.

[Toonpack 9431]

14 minutes ago, scoobos said:

Wow well its feral on here for Brexit.

 

I've quoted you, but read all the replies , so other comments are included.

 

That's what the landed aristocracy said , or what men said about women prior to the suffragetes.

There shouldn't have been a referendum,  but once there is NO ONE should be excluded from the vote - it annoys me that over 16's cant vote.  It's one of those topics you elect a government to make decisions for on your behalf, hoping that they are qualified to do so. But that's different from saying people shouldnt be allowed to vote.

They are voting based on a campaign - if the campaign is bent so be it - but the electoral process wasn't - why call it bent because it doesn't go your way? That's what Trump did!!

 

I think criminal charges should have faced loads of the Leave campaign, it was utterly corrupt.

I'm very pro europe as I've said  - but to try and overturn a stupid election result, by holding another one in 2 years time is not the answer - we made our bed, should stand by democracy and do the will of the people.

Problem is, the will of the people seemed to be "Stop darkies coming in" for a lot of people, because they've been indoctrinated for years that illegal immigrants are everywhere - while the secret sauce is that immigration from non EU countries has been the underpinning strategy of the Tories for a decade at least. Cheap labour wins all.

 

Finally, I wasn't in country , so educate me if there's something I'm missing - but the referendum wasnt FPTP - it was pure democracy, right? and a majority did vote in favor to leave - how is that bent?

 

 

 

The courts ruled that it would have been annulled because of irregularities IF it had been a binding referendum (i.e. it was bent), it was an advisory referendum and as such the court could not adjudicate to annul the result of something that wasn't binding. The government (ERG) made an advisory referendum "binding" for their own ends after the fact.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Toonpack

[scoobos 298]

33 minutes ago, Craig said:

 

Last post honest guv. 

When they say "highest tax in 70 years" - well, isnt that to be expected, given we've just gone through the most globally disruptive thing to happen since WW2 , with Covid?

And we've fucked that up now too - as I sit here typing full of Covid - with Brain fog, vertigo and deafness in one ear - and LFTs that barely detect it - with the same strategy of saying somethings sorted it pretend everything's ok? The admission numbers are well up again (Gateshead 2nd highest in the country at the moment ) 

[scoobos 298]

Just now, Toonpack said:

 

The courts ruled that it would have been annulled because of irregularities IF it had been a binding referendum (i.e. it was bent), it was an advisory referendum and as such the court could not adjudicate to change the result of something that wasn't binding. The government (ERG) made an advisory referendum "binding" for their own ends after the fact.

I'll have to read up on all that, hadn't a clue .. Next time im feeling upbeat I'll give it a go - there's enough miserable stuff in the here and now

[Gemmill 44900]

If they do announce u turns today, safe to say Andrew Bailey has successfully played chicken with HMG. 

[ewerk 30620]

 

 

I guess he's off to be told about his u-turn.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

54 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

If they do announce u turns today, safe to say Andrew Bailey has successfully played chicken with HMG. 

 

he's going to have to eat shit or he's toast 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

(kwarteng that is) 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

agree on bailey. i thought he'd gone rogue but he may well have played a blinder. 

 

absolute scenes 

[Toonpack 9431]

He needs someone to give him an ultimatum, resign or Terese Coffey'll sit on your face (after an hour in a sauna).

[Rayvin 5223]

1 hour ago, scoobos said:

Wow well its feral on here for Brexit.

 

I've quoted you, but read all the replies , so other comments are included.

 

That's what the landed aristocracy said , or what men said about women prior to the suffragetes.

 

So I'm not totally sure which bits of this were aimed at me - clearly I've not said anything about the referendum not being democratic, or that it should have been ignored or overruled so I assume from what you've said that those were to address others. I'll just sit those bits out and tackle the above.

 

You're saying it in response to my comment, that if people are not factually informed on what they're voting for, not educated as to the implications, and are basing their voting on a gut feel, that they should not be allowed to vote.

 

I stand by that comment and disagree that it's of the same nature as people not being allowed to vote based on physical attributes or class. People voting based on make believe and 'gut feelings' while ignoring evidence and analysis are not engaging in any useful sense with democracy or indeed reality. They're engaging in narratives and lies that have been prepared for them by the elites who know how to weaponise their ignorance. I do not believe people voting based on this shoddy framework should be allowed to do so.

 

If 52% of the country had voted for Brexit based on an evidence based position that I may have disagreed with but could at least logically comprehend in terms of what they wanted and how this action would deliver that, fair enough. What we got though, was people voting emotionally for some nebulous concept around sovereignty that has no tangible practical impact on their lives, all the while claiming that it wouldn't hurt us and that claims that it would were project fear. And to be really clear on that, I have gone as far as to say that I understand and forgive that initial decision, based on the bollocks they were served up and lacking the political awareness to parse it at the time.

 

Once the pain arrived though, those people have then lacked the maturity to acknowledge this, and have instead doubled down - all the while claiming that their emotive and insecure opinions, devoid of analysis or evidence, are of equal validity to those of people (not me) who actually know what they're talking about after years of study and expertise in related fields. Experts, as it were. They are trashing our framework for reference by refusing to acknowledge that our society rightfully values educated and experienced voices and their opinions in policy making, choosing instead to simply listen to anyone who says what they want to hear. This makes them childlike in their judgement. And consequently, not fit for the serious civic duty and responsibility of voting.

 

There is a reason support for democracy is falling amongst younger generations - it's not because they're being radicalised by China or authoritarianism, it's because the whole process is a complete joke that prioritises emotive nonsense (used to provide cover to corporate/Russian interests) over practical, rational outcomes that could make people's lives better.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/10/young-adults-loss-of-faith-in-uk-democracy-survey

 

So again, I stand by what I said.

[Craig 6682]

There's a whole raft of ex-Tory chancellors - Major, Lamont, Clarke & Osborne - all saying the mini-budget must be u-turned and must be u-turned now. 

[Craig 6682]

BBC have just had Professor John Curtice on who said Truss’s administration is considered the most unpopular since John Major’s following Black Wednesday. 

when you think of her immediate predecessor, that’s some doing!

 

[ohhh_yeah 2967]

 

 

[Alex 35095]

4 hours ago, wykikitoon said:

In the same way they said they would put 20k 'new bobbies' on the beat despite cutting 20k coppers in the recent years.

A bit like all the new hospitals 

[Gemmill 44900]

 

 

 

[Gemmill 44900]

 

 

[Alex 35095]

He’s a cunt. He can get to fuck tbh