Politics

[Renton 21627]

8 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

On that basis though, is this not also on Clegg?

 

It's not all about Labour, there's been a catastrophic failure of vision on the part of UK politicians for many years now. We very much never recovered from losing Blair, frankly.

 

Brown was a better man than Blair. He had to contend with the financial crash and a dodgy mic though. Labour under Ed Miliband didn't have the numbers to make a coalition with Clegg. Clegg did get the AV vote through which was better than nothing, but then, the English electorrate. 

[Rayvin 5223]

Just now, Renton said:

No, we wouldn't have had a referendum if David Miliband had won the leader of Labour. The scenario would have never happened. But if it did, I still believe Labour under Miliband would have had enough for Remain to win. Corbyn was an assest for Leave. 

 

Gotcha, ok.

 

Let's not repeat old ground on Corbyn, we always come to approximate agreement anyway. I have my own theory that since Brexit and Corbyn were both anti-establishment moves from either side of the spectrum (the centreground's total and absolute collapse through its own inadequacy and starvation of ideas delivered both), that had a GE happened before Brexit, Corbyn could have ended up in number 10 - i.e. capitalised on what was a significant desire within the electorate to give politicians the finger after years of austerity.

 

Have to admit I'm not sure looking back now how well that would have worked out for everyone but... idk, it's hard to imagine we'd be in a worse state than we are now  

[Rayvin 5223]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

Brown was a better man than Blair. He had to contend with the financial crash and a dodgy mic though. Labour under Ed Miliband didn't have the numbers to make a coalition with Clegg. Clegg did get the AV vote through which was better than nothing, but then, the English electorrate. 

 

Clegg turned down coalition with Brown, not Miliband, as I recall it.

[Renton 21627]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Clegg turned down coalition with Brown, not Miliband, as I recall it.

 

I don't think it was really viable though, stability wise, and it was arguably undemocratic. But that's yet again a symptom of the system which isn't fit for purpose. 

[Rayvin 5223]

Just now, Renton said:

 

I don't think it was really viable though, stability wise, and it was arguably undemocratic. But that's yet again a symptom of the system which isn't fit for purpose. 

 

It would have been far more democratic than most of the nonsense we have had since. And he could have walked away and let Cameron try to get by with a minority government - would have been utterly useless but then.. less damaging.

 

He enabled the worst legitimate Prime Minister in living memory, whose legacy has been one of total chaos. I say legitimate because the Brexit shower who followed him were not, to my mind, legitimate - they were a coup d'etat.

[Renton 21627]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

It would have been far more democratic than most of the nonsense we have had since. And he could have walked away and let Cameron try to get by with a minority government - would have been utterly useless but then.. less damaging.

 

He enabled the worst legitimate Prime Minister in living memory, whose legacy has been one of total chaos. I say legitimate because the Brexit shower who followed him were not, to my mind, legitimate - they were a coup d'etat.

 

Yeah, he was just another posh boy playing with the country ultimately. As much a shit house as @The Fish. But Brexit was well and truly downstream of this. Just looked back though on wiki and what I had forgotten was Labour had committed themselves to a referendum on Europe as well and Parliament over-whelmingly voted for it, with only the SNP opposing. As soon as Cameron put it on the manifesto the course was set.

[Rayvin 5223]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Yeah, he was just another posh boy playing with the country ultimately. As much a shit house as @The Fish. But Brexit was well and truly downstream of this. Just looked back though on wiki and what I had forgotten was Labour had committed themselves to a referendum on Europe as well and Parliament over-whelmingly voted for it, with only the SNP opposing. As soon as Cameron put it on the manifesto the course was set.

 

Wait, Miliband or Corbyn? I assume the vote in Parliament was the latter but was the commitment Miliband?? What on earth Labour were doing for the Cameron years in general, I'll never understand.

[Renton 21627]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

Wait, Miliband or Corbyn? I assume the vote in Parliament was the latter but was the commitment Miliband?? What on earth Labour were doing for the Cameron years in general, I'll never understand.

 

No, Harman! I'll be honest, my memory of this time is hazy and I'd reather just forget anyway.

 

Quote

In contrast to the Labour Party's position prior to the 2015 general election under Miliband, acting Labour leader Harriet Harman committed her party to supporting plans for an EU referendum by 2017.

 

 

[Rayvin 5223]

Absolute insanity. And she backed that welfare bill that ultimately caused so much outrage within Labour and (in my case and doubtless many others) pushed us into the arms of Corbyn.

[The Fish 10857]

13 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Yeah, he was just another posh boy playing with the country ultimately. As much a shit house as @The Fish. But Brexit was well and truly downstream of this. Just looked back though on wiki and what I had forgotten was Labour had committed themselves to a referendum on Europe as well and Parliament over-whelmingly voted for it, with only the SNP opposing. As soon as Cameron put it on the manifesto the course was set.

 

Look, I love attention, I think my position on that is clear. But why, in the world, am I getting drawn into a conversation about historical politics by the likes of you? 

 

If I had any say in the running of this country three things would happen. 1) we'd invest a fortune to close the tax loopholes, 2) we'd invest in the arts and 3) xG would be taught from primary school.

[ewerk 30620]

The BoE has had to step in again and continue to buy financial assets. This can't continue indefinitely. The government has to u-turn on it's dog shit economic policy. Because when the OBR report drops shit is going to hit the fan.

[Toonpack 9431]

Is he taking the gloves off ???

 

 

 

[Renton 21627]

3 minutes ago, ewerk said:

The BoE has had to step in again and continue to buy financial assets. This can't continue indefinitely. The government has to u-turn on it's dog shit economic policy. Because when the OBR report drops shit is going to hit the fan.

 

Surely a U turn on this magnitude has to end the government now? They are clearly not able to govern. 

[ewerk 30620]

The alternative is financial armageddon. You simply can't announce huge tax cuts with absolutely no plan to pay for them. It's like going to the bank asking for a loan with the intention of giving all the money away. The 45p tax rate wasn't the issue, it was announcing all the other tax cuts in a period of high inflation and low economic growth.

[Gemmill 44900]

I think Kwasi Kwarteng is about to lose his job. No idea who she'll bring in cos she's alienated most of the party. If she could convince Javid or Sunak, but I think they'll want nowt to do with this. 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

8 minutes ago, ewerk said:

The alternative is financial armageddon. You simply can't announce huge tax cuts with absolutely no plan to pay for them. It's like going to the bank asking for a loan with the intention of giving all the money away. The 45p tax rate wasn't the issue, it was announcing all the other tax cuts in a period of high inflation and low economic growth.

economic illiteracy, driven by ideology.

[PaddockLad 17281]

Will it be Zahwahi if Kwarteng gets pedalled? The useful idiot’s useful idiot

[Renton 21627]

10 minutes ago, ewerk said:

The alternative is financial armageddon. You simply can't announce huge tax cuts with absolutely no plan to pay for them. It's like going to the bank asking for a loan with the intention of giving all the money away. The 45p tax rate wasn't the issue, it was announcing all the other tax cuts in a period of high inflation and low economic growth.

 

That's rubbish, because we'll have loads of growth, growth, growth and the economic pie would become huge if only doubters like you would start believing. 

[Renton 21627]

Just now, PaddockLad said:

Will it be Zahwahi if Kwarteng gets pedalled? The useful idiot’s useful idiot

 

My guess, he seemed to really enjoy his 2 weeks of being Chancellor over the summer. 

[Renton 21627]

Of course no PM can survive losing their chancellor in this way, Truss is fucked. The sooner she fucks off, the better. 

[Monkeys Fist 42459]

13 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

economic illiteracy, driven by ideology.

It absolutely beggars belief that the country is in the hands of such incompetent wankers, because that also means that their advisors are similarly mentally challenged, or don’t have a moral compass telling them to resign if their advice is ignored on such a basic concept as this. 
The worst part is that the decision of whether to call a GE rests with them. 
 

Staggering tbh. 

[Monkeys Fist 42459]

What are the criteria for Starmer to be able to table a No Confidence motion in the House? 
 

I’m assuming if it was successful it would also trigger a leadership contest for the Tories? 

[ewerk 30620]

Never going to happen. Too many Tory MPs afraid of losing their seats with the current polling to back it.

[Monkeys Fist 42459]

Do they think another year or so of this will make their seats safer? 
 

It’s fucking mental tbh. 

[Renton 21627]

Doubling down still until the inevitable U turn. Continuing on with the "coalition of anti-growth" rhubarb.  This would be hilarious were it not for the damage its doing the country.