Politics

[Holden McGroin 6549]

Im going to go against the grain here and say she didn't do as bad as Ii thought she would. She clearly prepared a lot of this. (A bit like the thick kids at school who had to revise more that the intelligent ones)

 

She admitted that there would be more money into the pockets of the rich and taken from the poor but how much of the country will pick up a Sun/Daily Heil tomorrow and read its all rosy and Prices are frozen? i'm not sure the wider public understand anything other than the energy prices aren't going up.

 

[Renton 21428]

9 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I think there's some revisionism here - What tended to be said in here was that we expected a GE as a result of government collapse. This has never happened. I'm not going to go delving to prove that though so let's just say I'm wrong in my understanding of what people meant when they made those comments, and they in fact meant that the Tories would fall in the polls.

 

I think the thing you're sore about here is I'm not joining in the celebration of Truss being a moron. I know she's a moron. I am not "complaining" that we haven't won yet, I am stating it. It is a fact. We haven't won yet. I have outlined why I think we need to be careful and why I think Truss could be a threat. I may be wrong - I'm fine with that. But this place has a pretty fucking poor record on predicting outcomes in a political sense, so you'll forgive me if I'm not reassured by the notion that she'll be gone in February  

 

I'm honestly not sure any of us expected a GE prior to 2024? Maybe we did, can't really remember, but if we did I'm confused about the mechanism of it. Truss being gone by February is a pure guess on my behalf, not really a prediction. I think her going would neessitate a GE this time though so it's definitely possible the government will drag on in zombie mode before their ultimate oblivion. I'm not actually happy about this as each day they are in power we are more fucked. I would also not rule out her causing a major diplomatic incident.  

[Rayvin 5188]

Just now, Holden McGroin said:

Im going to go against the grain here

 

 

Run! It's too late for me but you can still save yourself!

[Rayvin 5188]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

I would also not rule out her causing a major diplomatic incident.  

 

This also concerns me more than I'd care to admit - in a bid to turn the tide if polling continues to go low maybe.

[Holden McGroin 6549]

I was expecting a car crash but you have to put yourself in Dave the bus drivers shoes. He says stuff like "Politicians. They are all the same. Doesn't matter who is in charge etc etc " then regurgitates anything the Sun/Mail say in support because the doesn't know any better.

 

He will not care one iota other than the energy bills are frozen

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Holden McGroin

[scoobos 298]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

So point 1 I think you have to distinguish between energy producers (Shell, BP etc) and suppliers (Eon, Octopus etc). As far as I am aware, the latter are making no money at all currently because of the cap. Ofgem only regulate the latter. Which is why so many went out of business last year. Of course some companies are both and these are making huge net profits. That's as I understand it, happy to be corrected. 

 

Yeah I think that's incorrect myself - as otherwise Centrica wouldn't be making the money it is. I believe the price cap preserves their margin. But I'll go research though, as what you are saying makes more sense than what I am thinking.

[Renton 21428]

1 minute ago, Holden McGroin said:

Im going to go against the grain here and say she didn't do as bad as Ii thought she would. She clearly prepared a lot of this. (A bit like the thick kids at school who had to revise more that the intelligent ones)

 

She admitted that there would be more money into the pockets of the rich and taken from the poor but how much of the country will pick up a Sun/Daily Heil tomorrow and read its all rosy and Prices are frozen? i'm not sure the wider public understand anything other than the energy prices aren't going up.

 

 

Is she doing anything for businesses? That's perhaps the real challenge. She has already stated she will wait until 2024 before she has to call a GE (although that means fuck all), but what will the effect of putting the energy bill on the tab be in 2 years? Also, it's been reported that her plans might exacerbate, not help, inflation. Citibank alreay predicting 22% inflation which is a fucking HUGE drop in our standard of living as things stand. The public will feel the effect of that even if they are not freezing to death. The cap is also being set at quite a high rate so I'm not sure the public will even be that grateful. 

[Craig 6682]

BTW when she wasn't imitating the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man, Coffey was like the Churchill nodding dog. 

[Renton 21428]

3 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

I was expecting a car crash but you have to put yourself in Dave the bus drivers shoes. He says stuff like "Politicians. They are all the same. Doesn't matter who is in charge etc etc " then regurgitates anything the Sun/Mail say in support because the doesn't know any better.

 

He will not care one iota other than the energy bills are frozen

 

 

But freezing bills won't be that popular, because they won't see the counterfactual. Inflation will still be insane and very noticeable though. 

[Holden McGroin 6549]

I smell what you're cooking Rents but I doubt  50+%  of  the population could even tell you what inflation is.

 

Businesses are in dire trouble unless she comes up with some help for them tomorrow so, yes, they could be a deciding factor in flip flop voters.

[ewerk 30393]

4 minutes ago, Craig said:

BTW when she wasn't imitating the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man, Coffey was like the Churchill nodding dog. 

 

I wouldn't read too much into that. It's just very difficult to keep your head in an upright position when you've got five chins.

[Rayvin 5188]

From the guardian's review of her performance published just now:

 

Truss also marks a very welcome change from Boris Johnson, in that (for the most part) she was willing to answer questions, and engage in an argument about policy and ideas. This, of course, is what is meant to happen. But for the last three years we have been governed by a prime minister much more interested in politics as performance and entertainment, and so it is refreshing to tilt back to ideas.

But that is where the whole encounter was less positive for Truss. She won the Conservative leadership contest on a low-tax, small-state agenda that put her well to the right of any Tory leader for a generation. Truss has always been a libertarian (it’s why she joined the Liberal Democrats at university), but during the summer it was never entirely clear to what extent she was just pandering to her party’s cruder, Thatcherite instincts. But now we know; it’s worse than that (to quote an old Westminster joke) – she really does believe it.

[Holden McGroin 6549]

Yeah, despite my hatred for the Tories there was at least a tiny amount of political debate.  The words "trickle down economics" were even mentioned which is a world away from "if you buy a new kettle..."

Edited September 7, 2022 by Holden McGroin

[Monkeys Fist 42186]

5 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

Yeah, despite my hatred for the Tories there was at least a tiny amount of political debate.  The words "trickle down economics" were even mentioned which is a world away from "if you buy a new kettle..."

Neither work? 

[Monkeys Fist 42186]

10 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

I wouldn't read too much into that. It's just very difficult to keep your head in an upright position when you've got five chins.

She forgot she’d taken her nosebag off. 

[Renton 21428]

9 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

Yeah, despite my hatred for the Tories there was at least a tiny amount of political debate.  The words "trickle down economics" were even mentioned which is a world away from "if you buy a new kettle..."

Did she say that or was it Starmer? 

[Holden McGroin 6549]

Starmer said it to be fair.

[Renton 21428]

12 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

From the guardian's review of her performance published just now:

 

Truss also marks a very welcome change from Boris Johnson, in that (for the most part) she was willing to answer questions, and engage in an argument about policy and ideas. This, of course, is what is meant to happen. But for the last three years we have been governed by a prime minister much more interested in politics as performance and entertainment, and so it is refreshing to tilt back to ideas.

But that is where the whole encounter was less positive for Truss. She won the Conservative leadership contest on a low-tax, small-state agenda that put her well to the right of any Tory leader for a generation. Truss has always been a libertarian (it’s why she joined the Liberal Democrats at university), but during the summer it was never entirely clear to what extent she was just pandering to her party’s cruder, Thatcherite instincts. But now we know; it’s worse than that (to quote an old Westminster joke) – she really does believe it.

 A couple of weeks ago she was saying there will be no direct state intervention to help with energy bills. She is not a woman of conviction, she is not a lady not for turning. 

[Rayvin 5188]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 A couple of weeks ago she was saying there will be no direct state intervention to help with energy bills. She is not a woman of conviction, she is not a lady not for turning. 

 

Yeah but that's actually a stronger version of the position she's taken. She's watered the intensity of her ideology down, granted, but it's the same one. You're viewing her as another Johnson or even dare I say it a Starmer - someone who will be whatever she thinks the voters want her to be. On the evidence of today, she's actually nearer to a Corbyn.

 

Which might well be music to your ears, frankly.

[Rayvin 5188]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gemmill 44554]

The political press liking the fact that she's prepared to answer questions is irrelevant because most of the public would rather see Johnson up there with his hair all over the shop making shit jokes and calling Starmer Captain Hindsight. 

 

Truss brings the deadly combo of saying shit stuff in a really stilted fashion. She's fucked. I don't think she'll be gone by Feb or any of that, we found out with Johnson how hard it is to remove a PM with a cabinet of loyalists. 

 

But she's a pure mong surrounded by dangerous unappealing idiots. So chill out. 

[Rayvin 5188]

Always love an excuse to post this video too - ultimately propaganda for Truss' view but it's very well made propaganda  

 

 

 

[ewerk 30393]

14 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Yeah but that's actually a stronger version of the position she's taken. She's watered the intensity of her ideology down, granted, but it's the same one. You're viewing her as another Johnson or even dare I say it a Starmer - someone who will be whatever she thinks the voters want her to be. On the evidence of today, she's actually nearer to a Corbyn.

 

Which might well be music to your ears, frankly.

I don’t think she’s saying what the voters want to hear, I think she’s saying what a small part of the Conservative party want to hear. I don’t think she’s a woman of strong beliefs, just a very poor Thatcher impersonator.

[Rayvin 5188]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

I don’t think she’s saying what the voters want to hear, I think she’s saying what a small part of the Conservative party want to hear. I don’t think she’s a woman of strong beliefs, just a very poor Thatcher impersonator.

 

I agree but she has two years to convince them with all the media and corporate interests behind her. Hence my original point being that we should remain vigilant. I think Johnson may have lulled us into a false sense of security about the Tories.

[Craig 6682]

6 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I don’t think she’s saying what the voters want to hear, I think she’s saying what a small part of the Conservative party want to hear. I don’t think she’s a woman of strong beliefs, just a very poor Thatcher impersonator.

 

Agreed. She's appealing to her small band of supporters who she's shoe-horned into the cabinet. As spongebob pointed she's made two monumental fuck ups already - 1. forgetting the 'keep your friends close but your enemies closer' mantra and 2. explicitly dismissing windfall tax as an option. I'm all for decisive responses and find them refreshing, but she's an absolute idiot for coming out with that.