Politics

[Kid Dynamite 7031]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

I think you probably would’ve hoped for that. Hope and expectation aren’t the same thing though. Obviously I am pulling your leg a bit too. I do think there’s an element of underplaying how poorly the Tories have performed though too. Was there any indication beforehand that Westminster (fucking WESTMINSTER) would go to Labour? For example 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10788987/Defiant-Boris-brushes-London-Tory-bloodbath-local-elections.html

 

Incredible spin  

[Christmas Tree 4725]

My rate two penneth. I think @Rayvin summed it up with the leave / remain comparison.

 

Labour have done great in some of the cities and less well in the towns.

 

If Boris stays, they will probably win with a reduced majority, if he goes it will be even stevens.

 

Labour really need to find a leader with charisma. If they had one already the next election wouldn’t be in doubt. 
 

Keir just doesn’t appeal to the masses and that’s the top and bottom of it.

 

Also Labour need to paint a “sunny uplands” of a Labour victory. Simply slagging off bad Boris will not do it.

 

They need a Blair.

[Alex 35095]

17 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10788987/Defiant-Boris-brushes-London-Tory-bloodbath-local-elections.html

 

Incredible spin  

Aye. The amount of people who buy that rag as well. It’s largely preaching to the choir but it’s almost Soviet levels of propaganda putting it like that

[Alex 35095]

20 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

My rate two penneth. I think @Rayvin summed it up with the leave / remain comparison.

 

Labour have done great in some of the cities and less well in the towns.

 

If Boris stays, they will probably win with a reduced majority, if he goes it will be even stevens.

 

Labour really need to find a leader with charisma. If they had one already the next election wouldn’t be in doubt. 
 

Keir just doesn’t appeal to the masses and that’s the top and bottom of it.

 

Also Labour need to paint a “sunny uplands” of a Labour victory. Simply slagging off bad Boris will not do it.

 

They need a Blair.

Agree largely re: Starmer but it’s the timing too. I’m not sure how Blair or anyone else would square the Brexit circle and appease both leavers and remainders. Regarding the next GE, the polls have suggested for a long time now Labour will be the largest party. I’m not sure how that gets turned around given what’s in the post either. Labour might not have a majority but I’d rather they formed a coalition anyway as that’s the best chance of much needed electoral reform. 

[Renton 21627]

35 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

My rate two penneth. I think @Rayvin summed it up with the leave / remain comparison.

 

Labour have done great in some of the cities and less well in the towns.

 

If Boris stays, they will probably win with a reduced majority, if he goes it will be even stevens.

 

Labour really need to find a leader with charisma. If they had one already the next election wouldn’t be in doubt. 
 

Keir just doesn’t appeal to the masses and that’s the top and bottom of it.

 

Also Labour need to paint a “sunny uplands” of a Labour victory. Simply slagging off bad Boris will not do it.

 

They need a Blair.

 

I find it absolutely staggering people value "charisma" over competence, integrity, and honesty, and even more staggering that anybody believes "Boris" is charismatic. That's by the by anyhow. If the BoE predictions are anywhere near accurate, and I think they are, you party is fucked no matter who is is charge, cos its not getting better in the next 2 years and the hard times haven't even begun yet. Even based on today's results your party is toast (see below). They've taken their eyes of the blue wall while courting the red wall. They've also shafted farmers in the Shires (who weren't up for election yesterday). The tories have no natural allies left (they betrayed the Lib Dems and then the DUP) so they won't be leading a coalition. I'd be amazed if Johnson isn't involved in several more scandals too. "Boris just being Boris". 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Renton

[Renton 21627]

3 minutes ago, Alex said:

Agree largely re: Starmer but it’s the timing too. I’m not sure how Blair or anyone else would square the Brexit circle and appease both leavers and remainders. Regarding the next GE, the polls have suggested for a long time now Labour will be the largest party. I’m not sure how that gets turned around given what’s in the post either. Labour might not have a majority but I’d rather they formed a coalition anyway as that’s the best chance of much needed electoral reform. 

 

Really not sure Brexit is that much of any issue any more. It's increasingly becoming a hard sell. A lot of very Brexit areas went Lib Dem yesterday, as they did in that by election a few months ago too. 

[Isegrim 9780]

6 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Really not sure Brexit is that much of any issue any more. It's increasingly becoming a hard sell. A lot of very Brexit areas went Lib Dem yesterday, as they did in that by election a few months ago too. 

It will still be a huge pulling factor in a general election with the mean EU and immigrants being responsible for your state of the economy. There will be enough idiots buying into it.

[Rayvin 5223]

As much as you don't value it Renton, I think a lot of people do need a vision or a narrative to follow on with - and I think it's predominantly down to the fact that a large number of people's lives have been and remain totally shit, and that some positive messaging about a future to move into is going to be worth its weight in gold compared to the idea that the situation will remain basically the same but will be better managed. I've been saying it for years but we're crying out for some fucking vision from Labour - but at this point I don't think it's ever going to come because the party fundamentally doesn't know who it is anymore.

 

And with that in mind, we need to get back to a position wherein parties can campaign passionately for issues they really care about and believe in the value of, without worrying about losing everything in the process. Coalition can deliver that, if Labour can just get their heads out of their arses long enough to see it.

 

I also continue to believe Brexit will be a big factor next time out but I'm prepared to acknowledge that my own bias may be blinding me on that.

[Renton 21627]

10 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

It will still be a huge pulling factor in a general election with the mean EU and immigrants being responsible for your state of the economy. There will be enough idiots buying into it.

 

In some areas, maybe. I think personally these will be limited to areas like Hartlepool and Grimsby though, absolute shit holes inhabited by morons. But most Brexit votes came from rural areas and the SE. These areas are turning away from the tories. Also, it's canny difficult to blame things on the EU 8 years after you've voted to leave and 4 years since you actually did. You can persuade the gammon UKIP crowd but not the average Joe who is struggling. A reminder, most working people voted Remain. 

[Renton 21627]

7 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

As much as you don't value it Renton, I think a lot of people do need a vision or a narrative to follow on with - and I think it's predominantly down to the fact that a large number of people's lives have been and remain totally shit, and that some positive messaging about a future to move into is going to be worth its weight in gold compared to the idea that the situation will remain basically the same but will be better managed. I've been saying it for years but we're crying out for some fucking vision from Labour - but at this point I don't think it's ever going to come because the party fundamentally doesn't know who it is anymore.

 

And with that in mind, we need to get back to a position wherein parties can campaign passionately for issues they really care about and believe in the value of, without worrying about losing everything in the process. Coalition can deliver that, if Labour can just get their heads out of their arses long enough to see it.

 

I also continue to believe Brexit will be a big factor next time out but I'm prepared to acknowledge that my own bias may be blinding me on that.

 

I think Labour do need a positive vision. Last time they put one out early though, the tories stole their ideas. You'll need to wait for a manifesto nearer the GE. 

[NJS 4386]

17 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I find it absolutely staggering people value "charisma" over competence, integrity, and honesty

 

 

 

Honesty? 

 

He lied through his teeth with his ten pledges during the leadership election and since has ordered abstentions on anything requiring principles - oh except for once when he changed an intended abstention on the policing bill to a vote against based on the Sarah Everard vigil making it impossible to follow his plan. Of course he made sure it passed in the Lords by giving Labour peers the day off. 

 

He might get back his tory focus group gammon bigots but he's losing Muslims, students, greens and others by the bucket load. 

[Isegrim 9780]

34 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

In some areas, maybe. I think personally these will be limited to areas like Hartlepool and Grimsby though, absolute shit holes inhabited by morons. But most Brexit votes came from rural areas and the SE. These areas are turning away from the tories. Also, it's canny difficult to blame things on the EU 8 years after you've voted to leave and 4 years since you actually did. You can persuade the gammon UKIP crowd but not the average Joe who is struggling. A reminder, most working people voted Remain. 

I will be at a wedding in Buckinghamshire in a couple  of weeks and will give an update on the die hard tory mood.

[Renton 21627]

30 minutes ago, NJS said:

Honesty? 

 

He lied through his teeth with his ten pledges during the leadership election and since has ordered abstentions on anything requiring principles - oh except for once when he changed an intended abstention on the policing bill to a vote against based on the Sarah Everard vigil making it impossible to follow his plan. Of course he made sure it passed in the Lords by giving Labour peers the day off. 

 

He might get back his tory focus group gammon bigots but he's losing Muslims, students, greens and others by the bucket load. 

 

It's relative. He is a paragon of virtue compared with Johnson. Low bar, I know. Starmer is playing the long game to get in power because otherwise what is the point? He's come from a humble background with tragedy in his life to become head of the CPS, suggesting massive competence to me. Again compare and contrast with Johnson. Not an easy job sorting out the shit Corbyn left behind though, leading labour to its absolute nadir. 

[Gemmill 44900]

I'm sure I read forecasts last night from a couple of analysts who said that the 800 seats lost was pie in the sky and they expected it to be in the range of 200. Well they're now down just shy of 400 seats. A shitshow by any measure. 

[spongebob toonpants 3997]

Labour's best share of the vote in a decade

 

BBC: Labour's disappointing performance

[ewerk 30620]

30 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

Labour's best share of the vote in a decade

 

BBC: Labour's disappointing performance

Could be worse.

 

[Alex 35095]

22 hours ago, Gemmill said:

I'm sure I read forecasts last night from a couple of analysts who said that the 800 seats lost was pie in the sky and they expected it to be in the range of 200. Well they're now down just shy of 400 seats. A shitshow by any measure. 

Nearly 500 in the end and it’s still being called a ‘mixed set results for the two main parties’ on the ITV news this evening. What a fucking joke Pestyn and co are, man 

[PaddockLad 17281]

So how much shit is Starmer in?…. If he gets a FPN he should walk….who does that leave?… are Cooper and Burnham too tarnishes with Blairism to be considered as electable? 🤔

 

https://news.sky.com/story/beergate-memo-calls-into-question-starmers-claim-that-he-did-not-break-lockdown-rules-12607392

[Christmas Tree 4725]

1 minute ago, PaddockLad said:

So how much shit is Starmer in?…. If he gets a FPN he should walk….who does that leave?… are Cooper and Burnham too tarnishes with Blairism to be considered as electable? 🤔

 

https://news.sky.com/story/beergate-memo-calls-into-question-starmers-claim-that-he-did-not-break-lockdown-rules-12607392

Burnham isn’t an MP is he?

[Alex 35095]

8 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

So how much shit is Starmer in?…. If he gets a FPN he should walk….who does that leave?… are Cooper and Burnham too tarnishes with Blairism to be considered as electable? 🤔

 

https://news.sky.com/story/beergate-memo-calls-into-question-starmers-claim-that-he-did-not-break-lockdown-rules-12607392

If he gets a fine I think he’ll have to go. It’s plausible the memo didn’t represent what took place, rather that it was just a rough plan. If that’s the only evidence would it be enough? Needs to be sorted out quickly one way or the other though. 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Labour

 

 

 

Conservative

 

 

Out of both lists the only one who would be a decent shout imo is Burnham. Just not sure how he gets back in in time.

[Rayvin 5223]

Are we serious, this stupid beer gate thing is enough to take him down? I thought that was meant to be above board?

 

If he goes it'll put pressure on the oaf, although he'll just ignore it and survive so that shouldn't be the reason to do it.

 

Labour should have a female leader next. Cooper I think.

[Alex 35095]

7 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Are we serious, this stupid beer gate thing is enough to take him down? I thought that was meant to be above board?

 

If he goes it'll put pressure on the oaf, although he'll just ignore it and survive so that shouldn't be the reason to do it.

 

Labour should have a female leader next. Cooper I think.

I don’t think he’ll be fined. I just think that if he was he would need to go because of his stance on Johnson et al. 

[ewerk 30620]

Aye, you can’t make a massive deal out of wanting the PM to resign for receiving a FPN then not do the same yourself. Labour look to have played it incredibly badly but on the face of it it doesn’t seem like they’ve done much wrong legally.

Edited May 8, 2022 by ewerk

[Renton 21627]

I hope it doesn't come to it, and it would be ridiculous if it did, but for me Burnham has been the politician to come out of the pandemic with the most credit. If only we had got him rather than Corbyn the political landscape would have been so different now. I guess he would have to be parachuted in to a safe seat either through natural attrition or through a deliberate resignation. Not even sure he would do it tbh. Only other one I can see as plausible is Cooper, because surely Rayner would be fucked too.

 

BTW, I personally didn't give a shit about the birthday cake if that's all Johnson did, but we know it wasn't. It was breaking your own rules and more importantly lying to parliament. Starmer did neither of them.