Politics

[Alex 35095]

2 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Lots of suggestion that this defection has put the brakes on the letters going in. A sort of unity has broken out as they don't want to give Labour any more wins today. 

 

This Wakeford lad is a proper Tory mind, if you look back through his voting record and debate interventions. 

Can’t argue with his views on Owen Paterson though

[Rayvin 5223]

I've only just noticed that the BBC is going to be without public money from 2027. How is that not causing more of a stir? Or did it cause one and I just missed it?

 

That is surely the battleground the Tories are going to fight the next GE on. "Vote for us and finally defeat the dreaded BBC and all of its experts, deal a killer blow to woke liberal elites, etc"

 

Full culture war shit.

[Renton 21633]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I've only just noticed that the BBC is going to be without public money from 2027. How is that not causing more of a stir? Or did it cause one and I just missed it?

 

That is surely the battleground the Tories are going to fight the next GE on. "Vote for us and finally defeat the dreaded BBC and all of its experts, deal a killer blow to woke liberal elites, etc"

 

Full culture war shit.

 

It's been fairly widely discussed. A dead cat as part of operation red meat. Freeze in the license fee for 2 years, followed by inflationary rises for the next 4 years, whilst future funding is "debated". If the conservatives win the next election it will be gone as we know it. 

[scoobos 298]

39 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I've only just noticed that the BBC is going to be without public money from 2027. How is that not causing more of a stir? Or did it cause one and I just missed it?

 

That is surely the battleground the Tories are going to fight the next GE on. "Vote for us and finally defeat the dreaded BBC and all of its experts, deal a killer blow to woke liberal elites, etc"

 

Full culture war shit.

Before I start - I'm pro bbc and have no issue with the licence fee at all, I think its very undervalued and people who haven't spent considerable time resident in other countries haven't seen how its the best broadcaster in the world, bar none.


But no one has said it will be without public money, they've said "we are freezing the licence fee and this is the last decision we will make until 2027".
"The licence fee's existence is guaranteed until at LEAST 31st December 2027 by the BBC's royal charter and that's not likely to change without a massive push of public opinion.

Now this is where I think the stealth and deliberate culture war is happening - during the period of the biggest inflation we've seen since the late 80's early 90s (5% or more) , we are saying the licence fee wont increase. So effectively its a net terms CUT year on year of 5% compounded at least .

So I think their plan is, "The public wont back us, unless the quality drops remarkably, or the institution has to outsource, or fails" .

See NHS strategy etc. (all my 2 cents)

Edited January 19, 2022 by scoobos

[Rayvin 5223]

Ugh.

 

Well that's done it then, I was still on the fence for Labour due to all the Brexit shit but the BBC (for all it's fucking uselessness in general) is too important to let the Tories kill it. So I'll be voting Labour, not because of Starmer, not because of any Labour policies, but because of a Tory one.

[Rayvin 5223]

Just now, scoobos said:

Before I start - I'm pro bbc and have no issue with the licence fee at all, I think its very undervalued and people who havent spent considerable time resident in other countries and seen how its the best broadcaster in the world, bar none.


But no one has said it will be without public money, they've said "we are freezing the licence fee and this is the last decison we will make until 2027".
"The licence fee's existence is guarenteed until at LEAST 31st December 2027 by the BBC's royal charter and that's not likely to change without a massive push of public opinion.

Now this is where I think the stealth and deliberate culture war is happening - during the period of the biggest inflation we've seen since the late 80's early 90s (5% or more) , we are saying the licence fee wont increase. So effectively its a net terms CUT year on year of 5% compounded at least .

So I think their plan is, "The public wont back us, unless the quality drops remarkably, or the institution has to outsource, or fails" .

See NHS strategy etc. (all my 2 cents)

 

Fair enough but the Guardian seems to think they've said they'll abolish it?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jan/16/bbc-licence-fee-to-be-abolished-in-2027-and-funding-frozen

 

 

[The Fish 10858]

I'm a huge defender of the BBC, but I wonder if a change to the licence fee mechanism would be worthwhile?

[scoobos 298]

10 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Ugh.

 

Well that's done it then, I was still on the fence for Labour due to all the Brexit shit but the BBC (for all it's fucking uselessness in general) is too important to let the Tories kill it. So I'll be voting Labour, not because of Starmer, not because of any Labour policies, but because of a Tory one.

I've only seen this in Britain and the USA , but why do we vote tribally? Just vote on who's manifesto fits, fuck the 2 state system and First Past the Post making your vote "wasted" , its not, its a myth given by the top 2 and makes sure nothing changes.

If everyone votes green in a constituency and Cons still win, the fact that they won by a minority , may well oust them the next time.

I love this video ,

if anyone's reading who doesn't realise how it works to make people think everything is 2 party , which then evolves to single party "as no opposition is credible".

My opnion is that the Tory defecting to Labour is doing so, because Labour are trying to pull to neoliberalism without socialist influence, so are essentially almost the same thing. Thankfully, those nasty unions are making sure Raynor are over his shoulder while he moves the party in a neoliberal direction.

Just vote on the manifesto or the policy, not the person or party - that's how idjits like Boris and Trump get in.
 

Edited January 19, 2022 by scoobos

[scoobos 298]

11 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Fair enough but the Guardian seems to think they've said they'll abolish it?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jan/16/bbc-licence-fee-to-be-abolished-in-2027-and-funding-frozen

 

 

The Guardian is as bad as the daily mail. Not trustworthy, its arguably as biased to extreme views , just on the other end of the political spectrum. Whilst I'd much rather read it, because its "left" , its still as full of shit imo.

Here's some balance:

Cabinet opposition forced climbdown on ending BBC licence fee | Financial Times (ft.com)

Basically, like all populists at the moment Dorries is speaking out loud with nothing behind it, hoping it sticks as a policy. She has no authority whatsoever on this and is trying to say things are real that are not , its politics by tweet - and we all know who trailblazed that particular strategy.

*my 2 cents caveat!*
 

Edited January 19, 2022 by scoobos

[Renton 21633]

9 minutes ago, scoobos said:

Before I start - I'm pro bbc and have no issue with the licence fee at all, I think its very undervalued and people who haven't spent considerable time resident in other countries and seen how its the best broadcaster in the world, bar none.


But no one has said it will be without public money, they've said "we are freezing the licence fee and this is the last decision we will make until 2027".
"The licence fee's existence is guaranteed until at LEAST 31st December 2027 by the BBC's royal charter and that's not likely to change without a massive push of public opinion.

Now this is where I think the stealth and deliberate culture war is happening - during the period of the biggest inflation we've seen since the late 80's early 90s (5% or more) , we are saying the licence fee wont increase. So effectively its a net terms CUT year on year of 5% compounded at least .

So I think their plan is, "The public wont back us, unless the quality drops remarkably, or the institution has to outsource, or fails" .

See NHS strategy etc. (all my 2 cents)

 

Yeah, my take on it too. Also they're dressing it up as helping people out during the cost of living crisis, as if the license fee is to blame, the cunts. 

[Renton 21633]

6 minutes ago, scoobos said:

I've only seen this in Britain and the USA , but why do we vote tribally?

 

Erm, because these 2 countries are the only ones with FTP systems? 

[scoobos 298]

I've only seen it because they are the only countries I've lived in that I saw it. But yeah... maybe you have a point!

Australia does it a bit too tbh, but they are FORCED to vote (which personally, I wish we did here)

[Dr Gloom 21939]

True to form, factions within Labour are objecting to the gift of a Tory defection

[Dr Gloom 21939]

22 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

It's been fairly widely discussed. A dead cat as part of operation red meat. Freeze in the license fee for 2 years, followed by inflationary rises for the next 4 years, whilst future funding is "debated". If the conservatives win the next election it will be gone as we know it. 

Something which will apparently delight the left and right.

 

[Dr Gloom 21939]

19 minutes ago, scoobos said:

Before I start - I'm pro bbc and have no issue with the licence fee at all, I think its very undervalued and people who haven't spent considerable time resident in other countries and seen how its the best broadcaster in the world, bar none.


But no one has said it will be without public money, they've said "we are freezing the licence fee and this is the last decision we will make until 2027".
"The licence fee's existence is guaranteed until at LEAST 31st December 2027 by the BBC's royal charter and that's not likely to change without a massive push of public opinion.

Now this is where I think the stealth and deliberate culture war is happening - during the period of the biggest inflation we've seen since the late 80's early 90s (5% or more) , we are saying the licence fee wont increase. So effectively its a net terms CUT year on year of 5% compounded at least .

So I think their plan is, "The public wont back us, unless the quality drops remarkably, or the institution has to outsource, or fails" .

See NHS strategy etc. (all my 2 cents)

Hear hear 👏 

[Tom 14011]

10 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

True to form, factions within Labour are objecting to the gift of a Tory defection

[Dr Gloom 21939]

3 minutes ago, Tom said:

We don’t welcome people who used to support the conservatives - great way to win an election. 

[Tom 14011]

There’s some genuinely thick as fuck people in Labour tbh. Too many ideologues.

 

It says a lot that Starmer has been a Fabian for an awful long time. People aren’t going towelcome anything too radical overnight.

[Rayvin 5223]

15 minutes ago, scoobos said:

The Guardian is as bad as the daily mail. Not trustworthy, its arguably as biased to extreme views , just on the other end of the political spectrum. Whilst I'd much rather read it, because its "left" , its still as full of shit imo.

Here's some balance:

Cabinet opposition forced climbdown on ending BBC licence fee | Financial Times (ft.com)

Basically, like all populists at the moment Dorries is speaking out loud with nothing behind it, hoping it sticks as a policy. She has no authority whatsoever on this and is trying to say things are real that are not , its politics by tweet - and we all know who trailblazed that particular strategy.

*my 2 cents caveat!*
 

 

Hard disagree on the Guardian being as bad as the Mail. The Guardian's nonsense all comes through their editorials and they are poor there, I agree, but the day to day factual reporting looks solid to me. Dorries literally said what the Guardian reported. Your article is 10 hours old so clearly there's been a change in the narrative since the one I posted. I note the FT also posted that she suggested abolishing it a few days earlier, so really the distinction here is that the Guardian has taken her words as agreed cabinet policy (which I also did on reading it) and No. 10 has then dialled it back.

 

Can't believe I've just defended the Guardian but to compare it to the Mail is just not reasonable. It's more akin to the Telegraph. The Left wing equivalent to the Mail would be Buzzfeed or some student union newspapers.

 

As for the political point about sticking to parties - I mean I agree, I fully intended to vote Green in this election due to their EU stance. But in the end, if we get into a situation where Labour is going to protect the BBC and the Tories are going to kill it, that's another manifesto issue that I have strong feelings on, and is likely sufficient for me to back Labour. That said, the decision for me is more around editorial control. I don't watch terrestrial TV, I only use subscription services like Netflix and Prime, so I haven't paid for a license in years. Thus, maybe it's not my place to even get involved in this one..! I don't care so much about the license fee as I do about the BBC becoming a vehicle for Murdoch style "reporting".

[Alex 35095]

27 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

True to form, factions within Labour are objecting to the gift of a Tory defection

I think he’s Jewish so that’ll piss off the Corbynistas 

[Toonpack 9443]

Fuck the niceties I wish someone would just top the cunt, along with his cabal if possible.

[NJS 4389]

48 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

True to form, factions within Labour are objecting to the gift of a Tory defection

He's vermin who'll go home in two seconds if Johnson quits. 

 

5 minute victory. 

 

[Gemmill 44931]

We should send Starmer over to Seville. 

[Alex 35095]

21 minutes ago, NJS said:

He's vermin who'll go home in two seconds if Johnson quits. 

 

5 minute victory. 

 

He won’t defect back imo*. It’s been done for cynical reasons though, in that he was near certainty to lose his seat at the next election. Hopefully he’s deselected anyway.
 

*at least not straight away 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Alex

[Monkeys Fist 42459]

By the way, David Davis positioning himself  as some kind of morally principled angel- 

 

He can take his historical quotes and shove them up his arse.