Politics

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

So I'm not going to read that twitter thread but regarding the strap line, bollocks. But it's clear the tories value winning above truth and the good of the country, isn't it? So what's better, purity or corruption?

 

You don't need to read the thread, just the article it links to. No point in discussing it if your not going to really. It's right though. I can see why the "red wall" brexit voter is turned off by Labour

 

[ewerk 30301]

5 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

He'll quit as PM soon and be quids in with lots of lucrative board positions, journalism columns, and deceitful memoirs. 

Aye, there was story today about how he’s planning ten years in power. There’s no way he doesn’t cash in within the next two years.

[ewerk 30301]

 

Clearly claps are more valuable than cash.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

The militant left will just attribute it to them being thick or selfish cunts and alienate them even more

Edited May 8, 2021 by TheGingerQuiff

[ewerk 30301]

I think it’s going to take a political psychologist to figure out these results. What we’re seeing in England, Scotland and Wales are the biggest parties performing better than before even though they’re three different parties.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

An endorsement for the status quo? Not surprising given all the free furlough money and vaccine success. 

[PaddockLad 17114]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I think it’s going to take a political psychologist to figure out these results. What we’re seeing in England, Scotland and Wales are the biggest parties performing better than before even though they’re three different parties.

 

Theres some MSP who was sacked from The SNP government after taking the can for the abysmal drug use figures in Scotland going up instead of down....returned resoundingly with an increased majority by his constituents

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by PaddockLad

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

True liberals the scots

[Rayvin 5186]

43 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

The militant left will just attribute it to them being thick or selfish cunts and alienate them even more

 

I don't think it's just the 'militant left' doing that tbh. It's also the centrist, remainer professionals. In fact, there are very few groups who aren't calling the Brexit wing these sorts of names. And honestly, it's because we've seen them on TV, heard the arguments. I recall the guy who said he'd be fine with his son losing his livelihood if it meant he got Brexit. Selfish cunt. I have heard all the people ringing in to speak to James O'Brian with their views on why this was necessary and being shot down over and over again. They aren't thick because of their views, they're thick because they refuse to process new information because they've transformed their political opinions into an identity.

 

We aren't going to reach them if they now see all of this shit as an identity. And for me personally, I don't give a shit anymore about their feelings or the need to pussyfoot around them. They're not coming back to 'our side' so why pull punches? And you know, another thing in all of this that I've said before - how fucking pathetic do you have to be as a grown man or woman to cast your vote based on whether or not someone said a view you had was stupid. This is politics for 5 year olds. So anyone who voted Tory because they think that people on the Labour side view them with disdain is just an insecure moron. If they're voting Tory because that's what aligns with their views, then fair enough.

 

This isn't going to come back together for Labour - and it's not because of Starmer, the left, Corbyn, Blair, whoever - it's because of Brexit. Irreconcilable differences across the country because of political gameplaying.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

When I said militant left I was including remainder professionals. Basically you lot in here

[Rayvin 5186]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

 

Clearly claps are more valuable than cash.

 

Can't quite believe that swing tbh. I mean that's a huge chunk of healthcare workers who have jumped over to the right. If it's true, it indicates that your average person really isn't paying attention to the 'left/right' nature of this, and is just eyeballing it based on leaders and surface level info. Which I can readily believe I guess. But I'm still not sure that I quite believe this is accurate.

[Rayvin 5186]

1 minute ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

When I said militant left I was including remainder professionals. Basically you lot in here

 

 

Fair. I know some actual leftwing militants so it feels like a distinction is needed between the two groups for me, but I understand the point then.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

I agree it's all about brexit. The middle class left simply dismissed working class concerns about freedom of movement as xenophobic, because they don't have a load of Polish lads queuing up for their office jobs. Tories gave them a safe place and respected their vote. The column I linked to articulates it well I think

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

The only way back for labour is if Brexit turns into the doomsday that some predicted. 

[ewerk 30301]

4 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

I agree it's all about brexit. The middle class left simply dismissed working class concerns about freedom of movement as xenophobic, because they don't have a load of Polish lads queuing up for their office jobs. Tories gave them a safe place and respected their vote. The column I linked to articulates it well I think

The Tories stoked the xenophobia and used it to their advantage. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

They interviewed a hartlepool tory voter this morning on bbc and he blamed Labour for the cuts in police amongst other things. Unchallenged of course

[Renton 21364]

22 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I don't think it's just the 'militant left' doing that tbh. It's also the centrist, remainer professionals. In fact, there are very few groups who aren't calling the Brexit wing these sorts of names. And honestly, it's because we've seen them on TV, heard the arguments. I recall the guy who said he'd be fine with his son losing his livelihood if it meant he got Brexit. Selfish cunt. I have heard all the people ringing in to speak to James O'Brian with their views on why this was necessary and being shot down over and over again. They aren't thick because of their views, they're thick because they refuse to process new information because they've transformed their political opinions into an identity.

 

We aren't going to reach them if they now see all of this shit as an identity. And for me personally, I don't give a shit anymore about their feelings or the need to pussyfoot around them. They're not coming back to 'our side' so why pull punches? And you know, another thing in all of this that I've said before - how fucking pathetic do you have to be as a grown man or woman to cast your vote based on whether or not someone said a view you had was stupid. This is politics for 5 year olds. So anyone who voted Tory because they think that people on the Labour side view them with disdain is just an insecure moron. If they're voting Tory because that's what aligns with their views, then fair enough.

 

This isn't going to come back together for Labour - and it's not because of Starmer, the left, Corbyn, Blair, whoever - it's because of Brexit. Irreconcilable differences across the country because of political gameplaying.

 

I think that's a brilliant post and I fully agree.

[Renton 21364]

17 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Can't quite believe that swing tbh. I mean that's a huge chunk of healthcare workers who have jumped over to the right. If it's true, it indicates that your average person really isn't paying attention to the 'left/right' nature of this, and is just eyeballing it based on leaders and surface level info. Which I can readily believe I guess. But I'm still not sure that I quite believe this is accurate.

 

I'm struggling to believe those figures too. The large majority of healthcare worker I know have a visceral hatred of the tories and Jihnson/Hancock in particular. Also they are well aware the NHS rolled out the vaccine, other than procurement it has fuck all to do with government. I don't buy it. 

[Renton 21364]

20 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

I agree it's all about brexit. The middle class left simply dismissed working class concerns about freedom of movement as xenophobic, because they don't have a load of Polish lads queuing up for their office jobs. Tories gave them a safe place and respected their vote. The column I linked to articulates it well I think

 

And yet the places with the least immigration voted for Brexit, places packed full of immigrants like London voted Remain. Its difficult to reconcile that fact without concluding the working class as you put it aren't actually xenophobic isn't it? 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Renton

[PaddockLad 17114]

15 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

When I said militant left I was including remainder professionals. Basically you lot in here

Im neither but I refuse to endorse the venal lying wankers in power, with the emphasis on liars. It goes literally against the evidence of my own eyes and ears and I don’t think I’m letting any sort of cats out of bags by suggesting that if Johnson can absolutely shaft the unionist population of NI (THE most British of the Brits, like ever..) with the biggest con trick in UK political history then he and his chums will have no qualms about paying for the Covid & furlough debt from cuts to universal credit and the NHS .  It’s coming, those in the former red wall towns are fucking lying to themselves. That’s their business, I’m not going to call them names but they are in for a very rude awakening.  Good luck to all. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Just the procurement.

[PaddockLad 17114]

1 minute ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

Just the procurement.

Johnson gave it to a woman to sort out with a blank chequebook. I’m grateful, but Hancock & the DoH civil servants did nothing. They did however clear the hospital wards of old folk 15 momths ago without testing them for Covid, killing most of them. Swings and roundabouts...

[Renton 21364]

1 minute ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

Just the procurement.

 

Yes. It was a gamble that paid off well. I fully accept that  but the actual application of it and the decision to lengthen the time between doses has nothing to do with them. It was driven by the NHS and scientists. And nothing changes all the other catastrophic mistakes they made in the pandemic. To vote tory because of their handling of the pandemic makes you, erm, a bit thick. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

And yet the places with the least immigration voted for Brexit, places packed full of immigrants like London voted Remain. Its difficult to reconcile that fact without concluding the working class as you put it aren't actually xenophobic isn't it? 

Places like London might have had the luxury of being able to accommodate those immigrants without it affecting the working class. I mean when I started working I witnessed it first hand, once decent blue collar jobs turned into turned into low quality disposable agency jobs on lower pay and it largely coincided with an influx of Eastern Europeans. It happened on labour's watch as well.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

Yes. It was a gamble that paid off well. I fully accept that  but the actual application of it and the decision to lengthen the time between doses has nothing to do with them. It was driven by the NHS and scientists. And nothing changes all the other catastrophic mistakes they made in the pandemic. To vote tory because of their handling of the pandemic makes you, erm, a bit thick. 

I would be concerned if politicians hadn't delegated vaccine rollout to health professionals and scientists mind. An odd stick to beat them with.