Politics

[Monkeys Fist 42378]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Spoiler

AM I FUCKING INVISIBLE ?

 

FYP. 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3887]

It’s so nice of Boris to tell Scotland it could be very rich in wind power.

[ewerk 30550]

4 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

FYP. 

[Monkeys Fist 42378]

4 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

It’s so nice of Boris to tell Scotland it could be very rich in wind power.

It’s important to give the serfs the odd crumb from the Top Table

 

We’ve been more than generous with the sweaties with our North Sea oil, after all. 

[Renton 21570]

So Johnson has literally attacked "the lefty human rights lawyers and other do-gooders" from the podium at his conference speech today.

 

You know, it wasn't long ago when this type of dangerous dribbling rhetoric was restricted to lunatics like LeazesMag in this country. Now it's not only main stream, the PM of the country openly says it and barely anyone raises an eyebrow. 

[Meenzer 15518]

 

[RobinRobin 11258]

18 hours ago, ewerk said:

AM I FUCKING INVISIBLE?

Who said that?

[ewerk 30550]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54444143

 

I see Len McCluskey is acting the cunt again. Just which policies have Labour announced that are centrist?

[Alex 35061]

It’s like these people don’t want Labour in power. Fucking ludicrous anyway but especially so given the recent past. 

[Rayvin 5217]

11 minutes ago, ewerk said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54444143

 

I see Len McCluskey is acting the cunt again. Just which policies have Labour announced that are centrist?

 

It's hard to know the answer to this because the left wing are going out of their way to find problems.

 

Abstaining on torture hasn't gone down well. There's also a lot of frustration about him not really opposing the government on anything concerning their COVID responses.

 

Personally I think the criticisms lack nuance at this point and that a lot of what he is doing is political manoevering to gain back voters, but i think its fair to say that I'm "concerned". We'll see what happens but he seems more a politician than a man of principle to me. Maybe that's what we need though.

 

Having said all that, McClusky just wants to get himself into the news. He was a pain even when Corbyn was around.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Rayvin

[ewerk 30550]

The recent abstentions haven't been an endorsement of the bills but an attempt to amend the bills (which are going to pass regardless) in committee stage. Labour have been vocal against them in the debates.

Covid isn't the sort of thing you want to be making into a political issue. Labour have supported the government when they believe they've been doing the right thing and opposed them when they haven't, that's the right thing to do.

[Isegrim 9761]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/10/07/liam-fox-knocked-race-lead-world-trade-organisation/

Stupid, nobody should know better about the importance of WTO terms...

[Rayvin 5217]

https://labourlist.org/2020/10/we-wont-be-back-in-the-eu-rachel-reeves-sets-out-labours-brexit-policy/?fbclid=IwAR3a_Y9s1M97iICdsHHWEjmjI5rkt5YJswaHbk5tUF9CFVjnBpAM7MPIUTI

 

Labour has given up on Britain being back in the EU and is now in a pro-Brexit position. I understand this, the ship has sailed etc. Unfortunately though, the pro-EU stance was why i voted for Starmer. Not sure I'll find many reasons to vote for him next time based on this.

 

Or at all, frankly.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 21912]

8 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

https://labourlist.org/2020/10/we-wont-be-back-in-the-eu-rachel-reeves-sets-out-labours-brexit-policy/?fbclid=IwAR3a_Y9s1M97iICdsHHWEjmjI5rkt5YJswaHbk5tUF9CFVjnBpAM7MPIUTI

 

Labour has given up on Britain being back in the EU and is now in a pro-Brexit position. I understand this, the ship has sailed etc. Unfortunately though, the pro-EU stance was why i voted for Starmer. Not sure I'll find many reasons to vote for him next time based on this.

 

Or at all, frankly.

Here’s a compelling reason: he might win an election and actually improve people’s lives? Unlike the unelectable rabble that came before him 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3887]

11 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

https://labourlist.org/2020/10/we-wont-be-back-in-the-eu-rachel-reeves-sets-out-labours-brexit-policy/?fbclid=IwAR3a_Y9s1M97iICdsHHWEjmjI5rkt5YJswaHbk5tUF9CFVjnBpAM7MPIUTI

 

Labour has given up on Britain being back in the EU and is now in a pro-Brexit position. I understand this, the ship has sailed etc. Unfortunately though, the pro-EU stance was why i voted for Starmer. Not sure I'll find many reasons to vote for him next time based on this.

 

Or at all, frankly.

That’s Labour fucked in Scotland then.

[Rayvin 5217]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Here’s a compelling reason: he might win an election and actually improve people’s lives? Unlike the unelectable rabble that came before him 

 

Struggling to care. Too many lines in the sand being crossed. Labour can't just barrel over to the red wall and expect zero consequences on the other side.

 

If they aren't in a pro-EU position, no matter how ridiculous that might look at the time, no matter how pragmatic they're being, I'll find it very difficult to vote for them.

 

2 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

That’s Labour fucked in Scotland then.

 

Aye but maybe they'll be weak enough to give Scotland indyref2 and then some of us can be rid of this nightmare.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

They won’t win another election, or even form a coalition, until they figure out how to win back the red wall, as distasteful as that might be for the pro-EU twitterati.

He also needs to show them he is patriotic, something again that will offend many, but remember Blair managed that nonsense beautifully. Remember the last time this country was a nice place to be? The Blair/Brown years 

[Rayvin 5217]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

They won’t win another election, or even form a coalition, until they figure out how to win back the red wall, as distasteful as that might be for the pro-EU twitterati.

He also needs to show them he is patriotic, something again that will offend many, but remember Blair managed that nonsense beautifully. Remember the last time this country was a nice place to be? The Blair/Brown years 

 

Not on Twitter. And he won't win if he doesn't take young urban people with him. Not sure he's going to manage that bit tbh.

 

As for me, I'm just one vote - I don't give a shit what happens, couldn't be more disillusioned, but I'm not voting for a pro-Brexit party. That's just the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

[Monkeys Fist 42378]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

 

Aye but maybe they'll be weak enough to give Scotland indyref2 and then some of us can be rid of this nightmare.

Woah- hold yer feckin horses there, Hamish. 
 

Are you a secret Porridge? 

[Rayvin 5217]

3 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Woah- hold yer feckin horses there, Hamish. 
 

Are you a secret Porridge? 

 

At the moment I am. Honestly if they ever get that second referendum and I'm not living in Scotland at that point I'd be over the border in a heartbeat.

 

But aye, I'm up near Glasgow at the moment.

[Monkeys Fist 42378]

If indyref2 happens, and you’re still living up there, don’t accept any invites from anyone for trips to Glencoe for a while. 
 

 

[Renton 21570]

14 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

They won’t win another election, or even form a coalition, until they figure out how to win back the red wall, as distasteful as that might be for the pro-EU twitterati.

He also needs to show them he is patriotic, something again that will offend many, but remember Blair managed that nonsense beautifully. Remember the last time this country was a nice place to be? The Blair/Brown years 

Do you think the "red wall" (which is only 43 seats, if you include the Midlands) will be voting tory again come 2024 with what's on the horizon? I can't see it personally. The government has to face the prospect of their promises hitting reality, with the deepest recession in living history sprinkled on top.

 

Rayvin, we've left the EU, there is no way back now. It doesn't rule us out us getting a closer EEA type arrangement though, maybe in a decade. I personally think that is the natural place for us and I could live with that. Scotland will become independent and will fully join the EU in a decade imo. 

[Rayvin 5217]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

Do you think the "red wall" (which is only 43 seats, if you include the Midlands) will be voting tory again come 2024 with what's on the horizon? I can't see it personally. The government has to face the prospect of their promises hitting reality, with the deepest recession in living history sprinkled on top.

 

Rayvin, we've left the EU, there is no way back now. It doesn't rule us out us getting a closer EEA type arrangement though, maybe in a decade. I personally think that is the natural place for us and I could live with that. Scotland will become independent and will fully join the EU in a decade imo. 

 

I agree that there's no way back, but in the end what's the point in my vote if I'm not actually standing behind something I believe in? I have been a supporter of an ever closer union with the EU from even before all this fucking nonsense started - if I keep abandoning principle after principle then my vote is meaningless. It's just an empty, vague thing that I throw around without understanding it. If I don't vote for the things I care about, then why should I even pay attention?

 

I'm not going to be able to vote Labour if they're pro-Brexit.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

Do you think the "red wall" (which is only 43 seats, if you include the Midlands) will be voting tory again come 2024 with what's on the horizon? I can't see it personally. The government has to face the prospect of their promises hitting reality, with the deepest recession in living history sprinkled on top.

 

Rayvin, we've left the EU, there is no way back now. It doesn't rule us out us getting a closer EEA type arrangement though, maybe in a decade. I personally think that is the natural place for us and I could live with that. Scotland will become independent and will fully join the EU in a decade imo. 

it depends on whether starmer can learn how to speak to them. the last election wasn't decided on brexit alone. corbyn's wing couldn't speak to these people about many of the issues that matter to them - immigration, security and defence, bowing correctly to the fucking queen. starmer has got to learn how to do all that sharpish, while keeping the cult with him. 

the rachel from swindon/aaron bastani types on twitter are already doing their best to sabotage labour's election prospects, then you have the likes of len mcclusky doing it in the real world. starmer has his work cut but he has to find a way to convince those that made labour unelectable last time that he can win back middle england and the disenfranchised racists in wales and in the north. 

[Dr Gloom 21912]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

I agree that there's no way back, but in the end what's the point in my vote if I'm not actually standing behind something I believe in? I have been a supporter of an ever closer union with the EU from even before all this fucking nonsense started - if I keep abandoning principle after principle then my vote is meaningless. It's just an empty, vague thing that I throw around without understanding it. If I don't vote for the things I care about, then why should I even pay attention?

 

I'm not going to be able to vote Labour if they're pro-Brexit.

what is it the point in being principled in opposition? ideological purity doesn't win elections