Rayvin 5223 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 I think this was the right move by Starmer, but he was clearly just looking for an excuse because there's really nothing in that. It does make a very clear statement though. Â This will be it for the far left in Labour - they'll leave in droves and then we can see what the remainder looks like I guess. I won't miss them but I hope they don't turn on us next time out... Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21941 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 starmer looking increasingly like PM in waiting. johnson bottles sacking cummings and jenrick, while he wastes no time crushing the antisemitism debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21941 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Just now, Rayvin said: I think this was the right move by Starmer, but he was clearly just looking for an excuse because there's really nothing in that. It does make a very clear statement though.  This will be it for the far left in Labour - they'll leave in droves and then we can see what the remainder looks like I guess. I won't miss them but I hope they don't turn on us next time out...  i think he probably was waiting for an excuse to get rid of her, especially given she's been non-existent on her new patch, but he must have been surprised she gift-wrapped one for him in just two months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: i think he probably was waiting for an excuse to get rid of her, especially given she's been non-existent on her new patch, but he must have been surprised she gift-wrapped one for him in just two months.  On reflection I think it's probably more that he wanted to make a firm statement on antisemitism. RLB is probably only a secondary concern.  EDIT - I mean she's not exactly a threat, she's very mediocre. Edited June 25, 2020 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30633 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I think this was the right move by Starmer, but he was clearly just looking for an excuse because there's really nothing in that. Retweeting an article where the interviewee blamed the death of George Floyd on Israel ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30633 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Â 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21941 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 he wouldn't have sacked her because she's a threat. it's about crushing the corbynism for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30633 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) It's not Corbynism he's trying to crush but the legacy of inaction over antisemitism that has plagued the party for years. Â Granted I can see why you might struggle to make the distinction. Edited June 25, 2020 by ewerk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 minute ago, ewerk said: Retweeting an article where the interviewee blamed the death of George Floyd on Israel ffs.  I mean, I could believe that it's an Israeli police technique - not because they're Jewish, but because Israel has a reputation based on decades of oppressive violence against Palestinians.  I do accept that making the claim without it being true, coming from a left winger, IS antisemitic. But I suspect I wouldn't have picked up on it from reading the article given that, based on how Israel goes on, it's entirely believable.  However, I'm not a politician in a party that should be on high alert for antisemitism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30633 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Â I mean, I could believe that it's an Israeli police technique - not because they're Jewish, but because Israel has a reputation based on decades of oppressive violence against Palestinians. Â I do accept that making the claim without it being true, coming from a left winger, IS antisemitic. But I suspect I wouldn't have picked up on it from reading the article given that, based on how Israel goes on, it's entirely believable. Â However, I'm not a politician in a party that should be on high alert for antisemitism. Just stop mentioning Israel and Jews in entirely unrelated discussions. It isn't fucking difficult. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21941 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, ewerk said: It's not Corbynism he's trying to crush but the legacy of inaction over antisemitism that has plagued the party for years.  Granted I can see why you might struggle to make the distinction. she was the last one standing on the front bench though - i'd say that was mission accomplished. he hasn't found any room for any of the more credible faces of the previous government - not that there were many to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21941 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:  I mean, I could believe that it's an Israeli police technique - not because they're Jewish, but because Israel has a reputation based on decades of oppressive violence against Palestinians.  I do accept that making the claim without it being true, coming from a left winger, IS antisemitic. But I suspect I wouldn't have picked up on it from reading the article given that, based on how Israel goes on, it's entirely believable.  However, I'm not a politician in a party that should be on high alert for antisemitism. it's a blatant antisemitic conspiracy theory. the brutal technique that killed george flloyd of kneeling on the neck is deployed by police forces throughout the world, but sure - they must have been trained by the jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Just now, ewerk said: Just stop mentioning Israel and Jews in entirely unrelated discussions. It isn't fucking difficult.  RLB didn't though. It was just one sentence in an otherwise detailed article, written by someone else, about a separate issue. All I'm saying is, I can see many people gliding right over that without even taking it in, and then tweeting that they support the article.  I fully agree that we need to stop talking about Israel, I'm just saying that I think this is probably more a mistake/oversight than an endorsement of the view.  Not that this changes the fact that politically, Starmer has made the right choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) It does also appear that the US police work very closely in training with the Israeli military, so while this technique is presumably not part of the training (and therefore flagging it as such is ignorant and sowing misinformation), it is also not as if Israel has been plucked out of nowhere as such. "Police all over the world" might use this technique, but how many of them are training the US police force? Â I'm going to outline again that I support this decision even if it turns out that the Israeli police did train the US police to do this (not that I believe at present that they did)Â - mostly because it's good politics, makes it clear which side Starmer is on, and has the benefit of forcing the issue away from the leadership. Edited June 25, 2020 by Rayvin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44935 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 I thought it was mental that people were going radge about her praising Maxine Peake. All I took from that line in the article was that she was trying to say that US Police are receiving training from special forces. That it was wrong and that she said it was Israeli special forces didn't even register.  But then half of twitter went radge saying she was a jew hater and RLB was praising her for hating the Jews. And now the other half of twitter is up in arms that she's been sacked because she was the last survivor from the cult of Corbyn.  Basically a ridiculous episode that says a lot about the state of politics in this country. But on the plus side she's shite anyway so get to the back benches where you belong. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21941 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, Rayvin said: It does also appear that the US police work very closely in training with the Israeli military, so while this technique is presumably not part of the training (and therefore flagging it as such is ignorant and sowing misinformation), it is also not as if Israel has been plucked out of nowhere as such. "Police all over the world" might use this technique, but how many of them are training the US police force?  I'm going to outline again that I support this decision even if it turns out that the Israeli police did train the US police to do this (not that I believe at present that they did) - mostly because it's good politics, makes it clear which side Starmer is on, and has the benefit of forcing the issue away from the leadership. it's not an israeli invention, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Just now, Dr Gloom said: it's not an israeli invention, is it?  What isn't? The technique? I mean I don't think that matters, if special forces from any country are training US police, then why would we look at who invented it? It has no relevance when talking about where the US learned it from.  Also, another key fucking point here - even if Israel did teach them this (and again, as I have said, I don't believe that), that doesn't mean the US just has to accept everything they're told by foreign actors. The US bears total responsibility for the actions of their forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44935 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: it's not an israeli invention, is it?  Saying it is isn't anti-semitic though, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21941 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I thought it was mental that people were going radge about her praising Maxine Peake. All I took from that line in the article was that she was trying to say that US Police are receiving training from special forces. That it was wrong and that she said it was Israeli special forces didn't even register.  But then half of twitter went radge saying she was a jew hater and RLB was praising her for hating the Jews. And now the other half of twitter is up in arms that she's been sacked because she was the last survivor from the cult of Corbyn.  Basically a ridiculous episode that says a lot about the state of politics in this country. But on the plus side she's shite anyway so get to the back benches where you belong. RLB is even more than a cretin than I thought. You may not have spotted the antisemitic trope in that piece, but you didn't spend the past four years in the middle of a shitstorm over this over this issue. I would have expected her to have spotted it. She, or whoever is in charge of her twitter, should have known better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Just now, Dr Gloom said: RLB is even more than a cretin than I thought. You may not have spotted the antisemitic trope in that piece, but you didn't spend the past four years in the middle of a shitstorm over this over this issue. I would have expected her to have spotted it. She, or whoever is in charge of her twitter, should have known better.  This much I agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4389 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 I thought the thrust of Peakes remark was that they were training them to see the people they deal with as expendable because of race which is worth a debate.  Still stupid to retweet it though as Starmer has obviously taken the nuance-less approach to AS which I can understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21941 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Gemmill said:  Saying it is isn't anti-semitic though, is it? insinuating that the israeli police taught US forces to deploy the knee on the neck technique that killed flloyd is antisemitic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44935 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: insinuating that the israeli police taught US forces to deploy the knee on the neck technique that killed flloyd is antisemitic.  I'm not being a twat but I genuinely don't see how that is the case. If it was the Nigerian police that had taught them, it wouldn't be anti-black to say it.  Besides, I thought it was special forces - I took that to be a comment on the militarisation of the police rather than a dig at who is doing the training. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30633 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Gemmill said:  I'm not being a twat but I genuinely don't see how that is the case. If it was the Nigerian police that had taught them, it wouldn't be anti-black to say it.  Besides, I thought it was special forces - I took that to be a comment on the militarisation of the police rather than a dig at who is doing the training. But it wasn't Israel who taught them the technique. But let's blame Israel anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21941 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 i mean, she could have blamed china - they use the same appalling method to contain people - ditto india. even the police in France do it. but she is sure they were taught this technique in israel - I CAN'T THINK WHY  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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