Politics

[ewerk 30385]

Let’s remind ourselves that Matt Hancock also put himself forward for Prime Minister. There are generally impediments to such people getting high office.

[Monkeys Fist 42149]

Didn’t stop Johnson, did it? 

[PaddockLad 17130]

Went to see a tribute band tonight...

 

I don’t care about morals

the worlds insane 

and we’re all to blame in a way 

 

😞

 

[Ayatollah Hermione 13840]

They all deserve the shit sandwich they're going to be served up but never mind that, Meenzer hasn't even tried to add me on Facebook. Think of all the great, left-wing patter I was throwing out over the last two days and he's denied me another like. Worse than shite.

[Gemmill 44539]

 

And this is why, if you want people to come back to Labour, you forget about your period of self-reflection, immediately get shot of Corbyn, and thereby remove any implication that the new leader has just been installed by him. 

 

[Alex 34938]

Can’t help thinking about Kinnock’s ‘I warn you...’ speech

[Kid Dynamite 7011]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

 

And this is why, if you want people to come back to Labour, you forget about your period of self-reflection, immediately get shot of Corbyn, and thereby remove any implication that the new leader has just been installed by him. 

 

 

Approx 40% didn't vote Labour because of Corbyn. Which still leaves approx 30% that didn't vote because of other reasons. I made this point on Thursday night before the data was out. 

 

Trying to pin this ALL on Brexit or All on Corbyn is not going fix anything. It's multifaceted and was massively manipulated that was by the press. Job done by the Barclays and Murdochs.

 

People actually disliked the policies of properly funded public services and an end to homelessness because they believed they were going to be taxed to the hilt ffs

[Alex 34938]

I don’t think anyone on here is trying to pin it all on one thing. It’s a counter to the absolute denial in some quarters in the Labour movement that Corbyn wasn’t a huge (probably the biggest) factor. 

[Kid Dynamite 7011]

Just now, Alex said:

I don’t think anyone on here is trying to pin it all on one thing. It’s a counter to the absolute denial in some quarters in the Labour movement that Corbyn wasn’t a huge (probably the biggest) factor. 

 

Dunno like, Renton and Ewerk have been pretty adamant it's all Corbyns fault 

[Kid Dynamite 7011]

I also worry that this gives a mandate to the new Labour leader to lurch back to the centre. Whilst Corbyn had his issues I still feel the majority of his policies (bar Brexit) were spot on. We could do without Tory lite Labourites getting a hold of the party. 

[Gemmill 44539]

He's the biggest problem. That's supported by every survey I've seen and it's supported by every Labour MP that's been asked about their experience on the doorstep. 

 

He needs to go and go fast. 

[Alex 34938]

9 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

I also worry that this gives a mandate to the new Labour leader to lurch back to the centre. Whilst Corbyn had his issues I still feel the majority of his policies (bar Brexit) were spot on. We could do without Tory lite Labourites getting a hold of the party. 

Oddly if you look at the polls they were the same at the beginning and end of the campaign. So maybe most policies didn’t even matter. Also, if you look at historical surveys, people may align themselves with Labour policies and still not vote for them for a variety of reasons that probably aren’t worth going into at this juncture. What’s clear to me is that two things overwhelmingly dominated the campaigns - Brexit and the leaders. On the former, whatever side you agree with, Johnson was crystal clear on his view and has been for some time. Corbyn came across as a ditherer who didn’t believe in his own policy (I do accept he was dealt a very difficult hand btw). So, when you break it down Johnson trounced Corbyn on both counts. I struggle to get my head round it (even as someone who can’t stand Corbyn  for not having the vision to stand down earlier) but there’s no denying it. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

11 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

He's the biggest problem. That's supported by every survey I've seen and it's supported by every Labour MP that's been asked about their experience on the doorstep. 

 

He needs to go and go fast. 

 

He was made a problem by the media because he was so far left and people swallowed it. Anybody else trying to implement those policies will get the same treatment

[Alex 34938]

Let’s be honest, the was a problem but that wasn’t his only issue. The lack of vision, the lack of charisma, the lack of intellect, the refusal to play the game and miss open goals by wanting to appear ‘decent’ or ‘moral’ or whatever, his choice of advisers, etc. fucking etc. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

I still don't see what the answer was. When all that shitshow of a Tory party had to do to win a landslide was commit to Brexit then I doubt a more charismatic leader would have made much difference. People were too entrenched on the issue and the result inevitable. The new leader needs to abandon the left or will just be branded Corbyn-lite in the media. People will lap it up of course

[Monkeys Fist 42149]

2 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

I still don't see what the answer was. When all that shitshow of a Tory party had to do to win a landslide was commit to Brexit then I doubt a more charismatic leader would have made much difference. People were too entrenched on the issue and the result inevitable. The new leader needs to abandon the left or will just be branded Corbyn-lite in the media. People will lap it up of course

I tend to agree with the first point here- this was Brexit Referendum disguised as an election. 
The new labour leader can’t ignore the left if they want to keep the party from eating itself. 
Quite how they do that I don’t know. 

[Alex 34938]

I think him or someone like him was necessary in taking the party away from centrism. Probably where the mistake was in his not leaving post-2017. I also agree about there not being any easy solutions/ alternatives. But Labour didn’t need to win, they just needed to stop those cunts from winning. That was definitely up for grabs with a better leader. Whether the Momentum fanatics would ever have realised that is a different matter of course.  

[Tom 14011]

A Tory MP on LBC already talking about private health insurance. This is day one.

People were warned.

[Renton 21404]

1 hour ago, Kid Dynamite said:

We could do without Tory lite Labourites getting a hold of the party. 

 

And this is why we are fucking doomed to a far right tory government forever. 

 

I'm now one of the older posters on this board, I remember with absolute clarity the Thatcher years, Michael Foot, Millitant, and Hatton. I'm old enough to remember what it took for Kinnock, Smith and then Blair to reform the party and get elected. I'm old enough to have witnessed the transformation Blair made to this country. And I am acutely aware of history repeating itself. 

 

Massive respect for the likes of Tom for being on the door steps fighting for what he believes in. Zero respect for the like of J69 who snipe from the sidelines with their ideological bullshit while the country burns. 

[NJS 4375]

22 minutes ago, Alex said:

I think him or someone like him was necessary in taking the party away from centrism. Probably where the mistake was in his not leaving post-2017. I also agree about there not being any easy solutions/ alternatives. But Labour didn’t need to win, they just needed to stop those cunts from winning. That was definitely up for grabs with a better leader. Whether the Momentum fanatics would ever have realised that is a different matter of course.  

2017 has a lot to answer for - if Thursday had happened then we could have moved on. 

[Alex 34938]

18 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

And this is why we are fucking doomed to a far right tory government forever. 

 

I'm now one of the older posters on this board, I remember with absolute clarity the Thatcher years, Michael Foot, Millitant, and Hatton. I'm old enough to remember what it took for Kinnock, Smith and then Blair to reform the party and get elected. I'm old enough to have witnessed the transformation Blair made to this country. And I am acutely aware of history repeating itself. 

 

Massive respect for the likes of Tom for being on the door steps fighting for what he believes in. Zero respect for the like of J69 who snipe from the sidelines with their ideological bullshit while the country burns. 

I know I keep going back to it but you can’t help anyone or change anything if you don’t get into power. 

[Monkeys Fist 42149]

13 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

And this is why we are fucking doomed to a far right tory government forever. 

 

I'm now one of the older posters on this board, I remember with absolute clarity the Thatcher years, Michael Foot, Millitant, and Hatton. I'm old enough to remember what it took for Kinnock, Smith and then Blair to reform the party and get elected. I'm old enough to have witnessed the transformation Blair made to this country. And I am acutely aware of history repeating itself. 

 

Massive respect for the likes of Tom for being on the door steps fighting for what he believes in. Zero respect for the like of J69 who snipe from the sidelines with their ideological bullshit while the country burns. 

Could Starmer do a job? 
We need to be aiming just a bit left of Blair, just a bit more centre of Corbyn, initially. 
Most of the manifesto was very well received, but seen as impossible to deliver in one hit. 
Whoever takes over needs to lay the foundations to rebuild us once the Torys have destroyed our trade, economy and welfare system. 
And all within a green framework to mitigate the world literally burning up around us and our kids. 
Whoever is capable of doing this probably isn’t even an MP yet. 

[NJS 4375]

9 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

And this is why we are fucking doomed to a far right tory government forever. 

 

I'm now one of the older posters on this board, I remember with absolute clarity the Thatcher years, Michael Foot, Millitant, and Hatton. I'm old enough to remember what it took for Kinnock, Smith and then Blair to reform the party and get elected. I'm old enough to have witnessed the transformation Blair made to this country. And I am acutely aware of history repeating itself. 

 

Massive respect for the likes of Tom for being on the door steps fighting for what he believes in. Zero respect for the like of J69 who snipe from the sidelines with their ideological bullshit while the country burns. 

I agree up.to a point nut why does it have to be centrist to win? 

 

Against Major, Blair had to be just a bit different to capitalise on the sense that the tories had been in too long. Now we have a tory party that's moved some distance to the right and a centre vote that's collapsed. I honestly think your brand of unambitious centrism will not be enough to do any good. 

 

I've read a few things about the visceral hatred of Corbyn among older voters which I understand and accept. Given the radicalism of the younger army of members I don't see why a better leader with a more realistic but still ambitious agenda can't do well. 

 

I'd also point out that while disastrous in seat terms, from a numerical and share pov there have been worse so to abandon all hope is premature. 

[NJS 4375]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/14/labour-meltdown-decades-govern-votes

 

Slags off Blair and Corbyn and I agree with a lot of both sides  - I still think Renton's description of Blair "transforming the country" is overstated but the point about not doing enough for the heartlands and taking them for granted is spot on.

[Tom 14011]

I think Blair’s legacy gets stronger & stronger every single day we have to tolerate the cruelty of tory austerity.

Theres a video of Gordon Brown doing the rounds on twitter where he rattles off all the achievements of new labour and in the current climate it really is quite spectacular.