Politics

[Rayvin 5183]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

It wasn’t that he couldn’t be bothered but he didn’t seem to want to attack while Johnson did. Very tame effort. 

 

In general, this whole campaign, he's been lethargic and uninspiring. It's a long way from what he was like in 2017.

 

If we get out of this, it will be off the back of remain voters only.

[RobinRobin 11138]

4 hours ago, ewerk said:

Mixed...

Bit of a concern with the world in general that someone who is regarded as less trustworthy is regarded as considerably more Prime Ministerial  

[RobinRobin 11138]

7 hours ago, Rayvin said:

Johnson's questions for Corbyn:

 

1. You are proposing a second referendum on EU membership. In that referendum, would you recommend the UK should remain or leave?

2. Your previous manifesto promised to end freedom of movement, but following your conference it is now Labour party policy to “maintain and extend” free movement. Would you end, maintain or extend free movement, and would immigration be higher or lower under Corbyn’s Labour?

3. Asked on Sunday if you were prepared to continue to pay into the EU budget on an ongoing basis, you replied “clearly if you want access to a market there are costs involved”. How much would you be willing to pay into the EU budget in return for “access to markets”?

4. All 635 Conservative candidates standing at this election have pledged to me that, if elected, they will vote in parliament to pass my Brexit deal. Can you guarantee that every Labour candidate supports your Brexit policy?

 

I think 2 and 4 could be painful.

I am afraid that 1 is the issue, and always will be.  He personally has always wanted out, but won't say it.  Just ends up prevaricating.  However nuanced his argument may be, I just don't think it resonates, and he doesn't seem that interested, unlike, as others have said, in 2017. 

That was his one and only chance, and he nearly made it.  That may well have been because May was even greyer that him, but against the flamboyant buffoon, he just looks bland and dull.

[Rayvin 5183]

41 minutes ago, RobinRobin said:

I am afraid that 1 is the issue, and always will be.  He personally has always wanted out, but won't say it.  Just ends up prevaricating.  However nuanced his argument may be, I just don't think it resonates, and he doesn't seem that interested, unlike, as others have said, in 2017. 

That was his one and only chance, and he nearly made it.  That may well have been because May was even greyer that him, but against the flamboyant buffoon, he just looks bland and dull.

 

I've consistently argued that Labour's position is logical in practice and boosts the potential number of voters more than backing remain would (for remain, not labour). I still believe this. What Labour's position does not do, and i've said this too, is help Labour itself win a GE.

 

By the looks of it we agree on the Corbyn 2017 being a far more compelling version. I mean I pulled out of Labour and turned on Corbyn in January because if his Brexit stance. I've not gone back to him, I'm viewing this entirely from the perspective of remain.

 

But like it or not, Corbyn is what we have to work with. And Swinson, as much as the LDs are now falling in the polls as Labour picks up. He can't change his mind on Brexit now, he has to see it through.

 

I can't imagine anyone's minds have changed tonight on the basis of what we saw.

[Gemmill 44398]

 

Emily Maitlis is class.  Cleverly is beyond a fucking disgrace. 

[Renton 21311]

2 hours ago, Gemmill said:

 

Emily Maitlis is class.  Cleverly is beyond a fucking disgrace. 

 

Aye. "Dystopian" is exactly right. And nobody gives a shit.

[Monkeys Fist 42066]

4 hours ago, Rayvin said:

He can't change his mind on Brexit now, he has to see it through. 

Why not? 
I’d have more respect for a Leaver who changes their mind to Remain after seeing the shitshow it’s been, and the consequences of blindly rushing ahead with it, than one who stubbornly sticks with it. 
( Also, let’s not forget that Stumblebore de Pfeffel changed his mind purely because he thought it would benefit him). 

[Dr Gloom 21813]

Terrible questions from ITV in the debate - Christmas presents, really? Plus faux chumminess from the moderator about them being friends and cringey handshake. 

Corbyn’s glasses were wonky so he looked like Eric Morecombe and he missed obvious open goals not pressing johnson about his private life, the stitch up of the DUP, or failing to meet his promise of exiting the EU by the end of October.
 

Johnson was poor too though - like a stuck record, repeating his election slogans. I was struck by obvious groans and laughs from the audience directed at both leaders. Two uninspired leaders, both unfit to lead.

[ewerk 30266]

I don't mind the nonsense questions such as the Christmas presents/say something nice about your opponent etc. They're designed to see how the candidates react to an outside the box question without preparation.

[ewerk 30266]

53 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Johnson was poor too though - like a stuck record, repeating his election slogans. I was struck by obvious groans and laughs from the audience directed at both leaders. Two uninspired leaders, both unfit to lead.

He was consistently unable to stick to the time allotted, even his opening statement went well over time. 

[Rayvin 5183]

3 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Why not? 
I’d have more respect for a Leaver who changes their mind to Remain after seeing the shitshow it’s been, and the consequences of blindly rushing ahead with it, than one who stubbornly sticks with it. 
( Also, let’s not forget that Stumblebore de Pfeffel changed his mind purely because he thought it would benefit him). 

 

I think he'd be massacred for it at this late stage. Would be proof Labour doesn't know what it wants, sign of weakness, all sorts. They have to stay the course now.

[NJS 4371]

It brings up a point about whether a party leader is a sort of dictator once elected or the figurehead of a mass democratic movement. 

 

I prefer the latter but accept that people want an air of authority as that's what they're used to which is where Corbyn falls down. 

 

I think a leader should be able to say "my personal position is x but the party's conference decided position is y" and be able to pull it off - as long as they argue for y. 

[Gemmill 44398]

 

 

... Which is interesting... 

 

 

[Gemmill 44398]

 

 

 

[Renton 21311]

 

 

 

 

[Gemmill 44398]

Btw, people are getting 12 hour bans for changing their name as per the above. The actual CCHQ account has had no such ban. 

[Rayvin 5183]

31 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Btw, people are getting 12 hour bans for changing their name as per the above. The actual CCHQ account has had no such ban. 

 

It would be interfering in an election I guess if they did. The Tories are getting the punishment they deserve in the media though. 

[Gemmill 44398]

 

Trump tactics. 

 

 

[Gemmill 44398]

 

 

A psychopath, talking. 

 

 

[Gemmill 44398]

 

 

 

Swinson the yellow Tory. 

 

[Gemmill 44398]

 

 

Splitbots Assemble! 

 

[ewerk 30266]

10 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

 

A psychopath, talking. 

 

 

Isn't she going to be Johnson's substitute for the 7 way leaders' debate? She's genuinely one of the most unlikeable people on the planet, it's difficult to understand why they ever let her in front of a camera.

[Gemmill 44398]

They're sending my main man Rishi Sunak. Must be expecting a tough night. 

[ewerk 30266]

Despite the fact they've sent him out almost daily for the last two weeks the public have zero idea of who that is. They may as well have sent an empty chair, it couldn't do any worse.

[wykikitoon 19895]

11 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

 

Splitbots Assemble! 

 

 

Yet people like Boris get's a free ride from a load for being a similar cunt.