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4 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

From a (fortunately) outsider's point of view, this is the main issue.  What does any of that mean?  Has that not what has been argued about by everyone for the past 3 years?  I am afraid it looks wishy-washy between the adamant leavers and remainers, but is clearly more on the leavers side than the remainers. 

So do you not end up losing the remainers completely, and splitting the leavers?  Given there are probably more rabid leavers than tepid ones, what does that achieve?

 

It means negotiating a customs union and at the least a very close relationship to the single market. It's a sensible compromise to most reasonable people but the last three years have been polarising to the point where sensible doesn't quite cut it any more. 

The biggest problem is that the majority of people are sick of talking about Brexit and just want it over and done with which is what the Tories are promising. What they're failing to see is that the next few years at least are going to be spent sorting out the future relationship so leaving isn't the end of it. Just the end of the beginning.

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33 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Why? It's isn't really an issue to 99% of the people in this country, broadband is relatively inexpensive at the moment.

Nationalisation is like cat nip to the momentum lot but most people are either indifferent or even worse the word strikes fear into their hearts. It's a net vote loser in my opinion and something they should probably be keeping quiet rather than promoting.

Most things poll well for nationalisation - I think this would as well - those with a negative view of it tend to be people who have a bug bear about the 70s and perceived issues - probably pensioners who'll vote tory anyway. 

 

I think an argument about who owns services which benefit everyone is a good one to have - we shouldn't be frightened by dogma from 35/40 years ago when people can see utter failures like the probation service as examples of going too far. 

 

Maybe making it free is a stretch as then you could argue the same for other utilities but I think aiming for a reasonable cost would be fine. 

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5 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

From a (fortunately) outsider's point of view, this is the main issue.  What does any of that mean?  Has that not what has been argued about by everyone for the past 3 years?  I am afraid it looks wishy-washy between the adamant leavers and remainers, but is clearly more on the leavers side than the remainers. 

So do you not end up losing the remainers completely, and splitting the leavers?  Given there are probably more rabid leavers than tepid ones, what does that achieve?

 

I won't re-tread the ground of others who replied but will add that from the point of view of Labour's electoral chances in isolation, yes it's damaging. But for remain in general, with the LDs offering full remain, it maximises the voter pool available across all remain flavoured parties. I honestly think its logical and so far no one has been able to challenge this particular point.

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20 minutes ago, NJS said:

Most things poll well for nationalisation - I think this would as well - those with a negative view of it tend to be people who have a bug bear about the 70s and perceived issues - probably pensioners who'll vote tory anyway. 

 

I think an argument about who owns services which benefit everyone is a good one to have - we shouldn't be frightened by dogma from 35/40 years ago when people can see utter failures like the probation service as examples of going too far. 

 

Maybe making it free is a stretch as then you could argue the same for other utilities but I think aiming for a reasonable cost would be fine. 

There are certain industries that are better off in public hands and some better off with private competition. In NI we have one water company that is government owned and we don't pay any water bills. I can't understand why something like that is privatised or what the hell the benefit of it is to the public.

Trains, in my opinion, should be privatised with competition benefitting the consumer but that has been tried and failed so should go back to public ownership.

But I just can't see any need or justification to nationalise broadband and provide it free of charge. It seems a step too far to me.

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15 minutes ago, ewerk said:

There are certain industries that are better off in public hands and some better off with private competition. In NI we have one water company that is government owned and we don't pay any water bills. I can't understand why something like that is privatised or what the hell the benefit of it is to the public.

Trains, in my opinion, should be privatised with competition benefitting the consumer but that has been tried and failed so should go back to public ownership.

But I just can't see any need or justification to nationalise broadband and provide it free of charge. It seems a step too far to me.

I've read this morning that countries with state providers have coverage in the 90%s (top countries probably) while the UK is 10% - that's Thatchers legacy. Supposedly competition should have worked its magic and provided it but surprisingly it didn't. 

 

I think the benefits would be huge - more home working with saved commuting costs being a major one. 

 

 

 

 

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Refused to engage with questions about his kids or confirm how many he has. Can you think of anyone you know who won't answer a question about how many children they have? That is so fucking bizarre as to be mind-bending. 

 

He's allowed to get away with it by getting all "please I ask you to respect that I don't answer questions about my children", but I would love to see someone not let it drop and keep hammering him on how fucking odd it is that he isn't even prepared to settle on a total. Just fucking add them up and say the number, that's all. 

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While I'm loathe to support him on anything, and fully appreciate this line of questioning hurts him, I don't really see what relevance this has to anything. All it's being used for is to make him look less favourable in the eyes of the the holier than thou. And yes, that's good - especially if they're prepared to ignore the plethora of other issues in which he behaves in disreputable ways. But at the same time it's a bit depressing to see that this is the line of attack, in amongst all the superior ones, that appears to be sticking.

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Plainly trying to get out of paying for one or more of them. Yes, let's have someone of that character running the country. If he lived on a council estate he'd be annihilated for that if for some reason he came to the attention of the tabloid press. 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

If he lived on a council estate he'd be annihilated for that if for some reason he came to the attention of the tabloid press. 

 

Or if it was Corbyn, let's be honest.

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If Boris was my Dad, I wouldn’t want him telling anyone. 
 

Not defending the cunt, mind. If you can’t be honest about something as straightforward as “ how many kids have you got”, it doesn’t bode well for his integrity on other matters. 
 

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nationalise-royal-mail-energy-water-savings-bills-national-grid-a9203636.html?fbclid=IwAR01MJMc4X7GG0UIAIGA6tNoNoRlcGDKqDkR_ttyeg-IcFoguC9WoRtpvAg

 

From the article:

 

The nationalisation of water, energy grids and the Royal Mail would save UK households £7.8bn a year and pay for itself within seven years, according to new academic research.

A report by Greenwich University’s Public Service International Research Unit put the total cost of compensation to private sector owners at just £49.7bn – around a quarter of the widely quoted £196bn price tag calculated by the CBI last month, which also covered rail.

Labour’s manifesto for the 12 December general election is expected to include commitments to take the rail network, National Grid, water and mail delivery back into public hands.

PSIRU director David Hall said his estimates were based on compensating shareholders for the amount they have invested in utilities being taken into public hands, rather than paying out a “market value” price as the CBI suggested.

Edited by Rayvin
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