Politics

[Gemmill 44398]

 

 

Kwasi's gonna Kwasi. I'm telling you, they won't send one of the white lads out to do this shit. 

 

 

[Tom 14011]

The tories don’t have to cost their manifestos because they don’t affect the billionaires.

Mention helping malnourished families suddenly everyone is a forensic accountant.

[Rayvin 5183]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

 

 

Kwasi's gonna Kwasi. I'm telling you, they won't send one of the white lads out to do this shit. 

 

 

 

Schofield seems to be accused of "anti-Semitism" in that thread for a tweet from 2010 which notes that David Milliband is pro-Israel in a disparaging way. How is that antisemitic? 

 

People are colossal morons these days, it's truly staggering.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

On 08/11/2019 at 17:06, Rayvin said:

 

Aye. It's the not dealing with it that gets me. And like, I understand sticking to his principles in having the freedom to criticise Israel, but at the end of the day it's a minor fucking issue that has no bearing on the country in any real sense. Just kill it off ffs.

There is nothing antisemitic about criticising Israel 

[Rayvin 5183]

3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

There is nothing antisemitic about criticising Israel 

 

Well I know, but those tweets they're all citing suggest that they think there is. The lines are getting way too blurred on this now. Anti-semitism definitely is the one tool they have to beat Corbyn with, and he's so grossly mismanaged the whole thing that even I now think he might legitimately be antisemitic. But at the same time it's opened the floor up to any criticism of Israel becoming an issue on the same basis, apparently.

 

I mean the Israelis must be loving this, what was that report a couple of years ago about them orchestrating take downs of anti-Israel MPs as admitted by their own embassy staff? Everything they ever wanted here.

[ewerk 30266]

2 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Well I know, but those tweets they're all citing suggest that they think there is. The lines are getting way too blurred on this now.

If only there were some accepted definition of anti-semitism they could adopt.  

[Rayvin 5183]

59 minutes ago, ewerk said:

If only there were some accepted definition of anti-semitism they could adopt.  

 

They did, it was the 11 examples they seemed to struggle with.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/04/labour-adopts-ihra-antisemitism-definition-in-full

[ewerk 30266]

Brexit party not standing in 317 Tory seats. Not good news.

[ewerk 30266]

Cleverly refusing to deny a pact.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

Sir Nigel?

[PaddockLad 17079]

Peerage in the post? 

 

Brexiteers point blank inability to as much as even acknowledge the corrupt anti democratic privileged unelected retirement home at Westminster has always struck me profoundly hypocritical...

[Meenzer 15407]

Fuck's sake.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

will we see the LDs and Labour form a retaliatory pact? 

of course we won't. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Dr Gloom

[Rayvin 5183]

It's bad news but let's not pretend it wasn't coming or indeed overstate it. The Brexit Party have done this because polling indicates that they're not really making any headway - 6% nationally. When you factor in that they're now not standing in half the seats, I expect that number changes.

 

And as Gemmill's post a few days ago points out, the vast majority of people who would be minded to vote Brexit Party would not have voted Labour last time anyway - so it's arguable how much impact the BP is likely to have. Maybe one or two seats? Meanwhile, the Tories are set to lose 13 in Scotland and hopefully another 10 or 20 to the Liberals. Labour just needs to hold firm, and I broadly think they will.

[Meenzer 15407]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

and hopefully another 10 or 20 to the Liberals

 

This is one thing that worries me about it - I think some of the LD targets are based as much on hardline Tories voting BP as soft Tories coming over to the LDs. Hopefully it's more the latter though.

[Rayvin 5183]

2 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

 

This is one thing that worries me about it - I think some of the LD targets are based as much on hardline Tories voting BP as soft Tories coming over to the LDs. Hopefully it's more the latter though.

 

I see your point, it'll be a mix of both of course.

 

However, one way or another the Tories need to make significant gains still. National polling (I know) still indicates that the combined might of the Tories and Farage is only 45%. 

[Dr Gloom 21813]

they're still splitting the leave vote in tory target seats in the north, but labour and lib dem should get their act together on this and fight fire with fire 

[Rayvin 5183]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

they're still splitting the leave vote in tory target seats in the north, but labour and lib dem should get their act together on this and fight fire with fire 

 

I think the Lib Dems could pivot to this without harming their pro-soft Tory stance. They can still claim they'll vote to block all manner of marxist craziness but will vote in support of Labour where it counts. The problem is, that's not much of an incentive for Labour.

[Rayvin 5183]

Electoral Calculus has the Tories on a 90 seat majority however  So maybe I'm just wrong.

[Alex 34846]

Hopefully they are as wrong as they were the last time round 

[Rayvin 5183]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

Hopefully they are as wrong as they were the last time round 

 

I can't see how it could possibly be true but honestly, it's just unknowable these days.

 

I'm really not sure at all what happens if the Tories win this. Something approximating No Deal Brexit and then 5 years of Tory rule. Corbyn goes, Labour resumes soul searching, the momentum and energy behind the left collapses and a generation of young people give up on the whole affair. Some less threatening individual will replace him but without the vision or boldness that excites people, and it'll all just fall away. I think it might be win or bust for Labour. As it pretty much was before Corbyn appeared, in truth.

[Alex 34846]

The bloke who runs that site called himself a liberal leaver or something like that. Did a blog about all the advantages of leaving. Seemed to stop publishing them about 3 years ago for some reason 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Alex

[Renton 21311]

23 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

but without the vision or boldness that excites people

 

What vision? Who does he excite? He's as much vision as I had when I was in Tynemouth sixth form. The first rule of politics is to get elected you need broad appeal. Corbyn never had and will never have this. 

 

It's looking very much like no deal in 12 months time and Corbyn has a massive part in the blame for this. 

[Rayvin 5183]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

What vision? Who does he excite? He's as much vision as I had when I was in Tynemouth sixth form. The first rule of politics is to get elected you need broad appeal. Corbyn never had and will never have this. 

 

It's looking very much like no deal in 12 months time and Corbyn has a massive part in the blame for this. 

 

The 500k people who joined the party and the 40% of people who voted for him last time out.

 

Look, let's not do this again. Corbyn was ultimately a symptom of the same failure of the centre that Brexit is. If when Corbyn goes we return to "radical centrism" then I think we can consider the Tories in power for the rest of our lives.

[Gemmill 44398]

Farage says he was offered a peerage on Friday night. U turn on following Monday but claims he'll reject the peerage. Let's see eh.