Politics

[ewerk 30595]

You really do have to wonder about the state of the people in this country that the Tories have a strong lead in the polls.

[Rayvin 5217]

1 hour ago, NJS said:

You need to check out what the libs are doing with that best for Britain site. 

 

They are 100% going for a tory coalition. 

 

It's just impossible that this could be the case. What do they do about Brexit in a coalition exactly? Ignoring the fact that, if they did this, they would once again spurn all of the gains they've made in voters by being a soft left option.

 

I refuse to believe that the LDs are so myopic that they could be unaware that coalition with the Tories would utterly ruin them, a mere 5 years after the last time they tried it utterly ruined them.

 

They're going for Tory voters. As they should be.

[NJS 4378]

8 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

It's just impossible that this could be the case. What do they do about Brexit in a coalition exactly? Ignoring the fact that, if they did this, they would once again spurn all of the gains they've made in voters by being a soft left option.

 

I refuse to believe that the LDs are so myopic that they could be unaware that coalition with the Tories would utterly ruin them, a mere 5 years after the last time they tried it utterly ruined them.

 

They're going for Tory voters. As they should be.

No, they're going for Labour - Swinson described the Johnson vs Corbyn debate as two leavers on a stage - the way they are still saying Labour will leave is a clear appeal for the remain vote which of it works will simply hand the tories power by costing Labour seats like Canterbury and Kensington. 

 

Theyve now said they wouldn't have/won't work with Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband and Jeremy Corbyn - given that range who the hell do you think they would work with? 

 

 

[Renton 21605]

2 minutes ago, NJS said:

No, they're going for Labour - Swinson described the Johnson vs Corbyn debate as two leavers on a stage - the way they are still saying Labour will leave is a clear appeal for the remain vote which of it works will simply hand the tories power by costing Labour seats like Canterbury and Kensington. 

 

Theyve now said they wouldn't have/won't work with Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband and Jeremy Corbyn - given that range who the hell do you think they would work with? 

 

 

 

It's been pointed out they have to say this to win over tory defectors. It's simple politicking But after a GE I think they definitely would form a coalition with the left and absolutely no chance they would do this with the tories again.

 

Your problem NJS is that you lump anybody who is centrist into the same category as the tories, who are now an extremist party. The LDs are infinitely preferable to the tories. I would have no hesitation voting for them tactically to keep out Johnson, none whatsoever.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3892]

7 minutes ago, NJS said:

No, they're going for Labour - Swinson described the Johnson vs Corbyn debate as two leavers on a stage - the way they are still saying Labour will leave is a clear appeal for the remain vote which of it works will simply hand the tories power by costing Labour seats like Canterbury and Kensington. 

 

Theyve now said they wouldn't have/won't work with Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband and Jeremy Corbyn - given that range who the hell do you think they would work with? 

 

 

It’s true though, both Corbyn and Johnson are Leavers.

[Gemmill 44848]

Their tactical voting site recommends voting Labour on 380 seats, Lib Dem in 175 seats. 

 

I was looking at the data for Hexham earlier, where they're recommending a Lib Dem vote even though the Labour candidate was a very comfortable second in 2017.

 

So a perfect example of one of the seats where they're supposedly fucking up. But the point is that their underlying data shows that, in the absence of tactical voting, Labour and Lib Dem will almost exactly share the vote in this seat this time around (hugely different to 2017 and a perfect example of why looking at they 2017 result is fundamentally flawed). And the way to maximise the remain vote, per their analysis, is to ask people to switch to Lib Dem, not Labour (presumably because soft Tories/Tory remainers will NEVER vote for Corbyn).

 

As it happens, even with tactical voting, the seat is still projected to remain a fairly comfortable Tory win. 

[NJS 4378]

I think Swinson's comments on other matters suggest she's more tory leaning than the general perfectly decent Liberal democrat. That's why I don't trust her. 

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

It's been pointed out they have to say this to win over tory defectors. It's simple politicking But after a GE I think they definitely would form a coalition with the left and absolutely no chance they would do this with the tories again.

 

Your problem NJS is that you lump anybody who is centrist into the same category as the tories, who are now an extremist party. The LDs are infinitely preferable to the tories. I would have no hesitation voting for them tactically to keep out Johnson, none whatsoever.

 

[NJS 4378]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

It’s true though, both Corbyn and Johnson are Leavers.

I'd say Johnson is probably more of a remainer than Corbyn but it's the party's policy that matters. 

[Rayvin 5217]

I don't particularly trust her either. I do think she's probably a soft Tory at heart. But I see no way she can go into coalition with them. 

 

All we need at this point is enough votes for a second referendum, the Labour project and everything else is just secondary.

[PaddockLad 17246]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

Jacob Rees Mogg: 'Grenfell victims died because they were stupid'.

 

 

From the party who brought you "Let's blame the victims of Hillsborough for their own deaths" 

 

Fuckin despicable cunts 

[Meenzer 15518]

This is the thing Corbyn acolytes don't seem to get. He simply cannot reach across to a broader swathe of the swing-vote population, not because of his portrayal as an 80s mung-bean-eating IRA-supporting leftie, but because he's a dyed-in-the-wool Leaver.

 

If you're a Labour supporter and in any way realistic, you actually want the Lib Dems to be disparaging Corbyn in an attempt to grab soft Tory leaver votes - it won't impact your core vote, who are voting Labour anyway no matter what, and Corbyn cannot ever hope to do the same.

[Renton 21605]

6 minutes ago, NJS said:

I think Swinson's comments on other matters suggest she's more tory leaning than the general perfectly decent Liberal democrat. That's why I don't trust her. 

 

 

Oh ffs. The LDs advocate revoke, whereas it's clear now the tories are going for no deal. I'd love to see that coalition work. 

[NJS 4378]

2 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

This is the thing Corbyn acolytes don't seem to get. He simply cannot reach across to a broader swathe of the swing-vote population, not because of his portrayal as an 80s mung-bean-eating IRA-supporting leftie, but because he's a dyed-in-the-wool Leaver.

 

If you're a Labour supporter and in any way realistic, you actually want the Lib Dems to be disparaging Corbyn in an attempt to grab soft Tory leaver votes, because it won't impact your core vote who are voting Labour anyway and Corbyn cannot ever hope to do the same.

Fair enough but there are a surprising number of clear labour/tory marginals where that approach will guarantee a tory win - a result which may have been likely anyway but still. 

[Meenzer 15518]

If you're in a Labour-Tory marginal, the Lib Dems take votes from the Tories and you still can't win...

[NJS 4378]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Oh ffs. The LDs advocate revoke, whereas it's clear now the tories are going for no deal. I'd love to see that coalition work. 

It's not all about brexit - it's clear she has no interest in any kind of moderately left wing policies. 

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if Johnson offers then a second ref confident his deal will win. 

[NJS 4378]

1 minute ago, Meenzer said:

If you're in a Labour-Tory marginal, the Lib Dems take votes from the Tories and you still can't win...

But my view is their campaign is more aimed at Labour remainers not tory ones. 

[Renton 21605]

8 minutes ago, NJS said:

It's not all about brexit - it's clear she has no interest in any kind of moderately left wing policies. 

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if Johnson offers then a second ref confident his deal will win. 

It pretty much is all about Brexit for the LDs, and their stance is further away from that of the tories than Labour's is. How would the LDs, with people like Umunna, coexist with ERG? I'd say there is 0% of an LD Con coalition. I'm beginning to think you may be on drugs.

 

[Rayvin 5217]

4 minutes ago, NJS said:

But my view is their campaign is more aimed at Labour remainers not tory ones. 

 

What do you think they have to gain by appearing soft on Labour? If she was making noises about left wing coalitions and so on, the Tories would immediately state that a vote for LD is a vote for Corbyn, and all the soft Tory voters would be scared off.

 

As far as I'm concerned she can attack Corbyn as much as she wants. I don't think it will harm the left wing vote for him, the centrists who would vote for him won't be affected as they'll presumably vote for the strongest remain candidate in their region come what may, and it improves her chances with right wing remainers who would otherwise not be able to be part of a remain coalition.

 

It's true that this will almost certainly result in a minority government for Labour if they do win, but that's a price I'm willing to pay, even if Swinson spends the next 5 years blocking everything Labour try to do except Brexit.

[ewerk 30595]

43 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Their tactical voting site recommends voting Labour on 380 seats, Lib Dem in 175 seats. 

 

I was looking at the data for Hexham earlier, where they're recommending a Lib Dem vote even though the Labour candidate was a very comfortable second in 2017.

 

So a perfect example of one of the seats where they're supposedly fucking up. But the point is that their underlying data shows that, in the absence of tactical voting, Labour and Lib Dem will almost exactly share the vote in this seat this time around (hugely different to 2017 and a perfect example of why looking at they 2017 result is fundamentally flawed). And the way to maximise the remain vote, per their analysis, is to ask people to switch to Lib Dem, not Labour (presumably because soft Tories/Tory remainers will NEVER vote for Corbyn).

 

As it happens, even with tactical voting, the seat is still projected to remain a fairly comfortable Tory win. 

The Hexham candidate has shown no evidence whatsoever of being pro-remain or pro-peoples vote. They aren't looking to simply defeat the Tories but to have a pro-referendum parliament.

[NJS 4378]

18 minutes ago, Renton said:

It pretty much is all about Brexit for the LDs, and their stance is further away from that of the tories than Labour's is. How would the LDs, with people like Umunna, coexist with ERG? I'd say there is 0% of an LD Con coalition. I'm beginning to think you may be on drugs.

 

We'll see - I don't underestimate the chances of power conquering brexit. 

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Is that the Tories failing again? 

 

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/107793/no-homes-built-under-flagship-2015-tory

[ewerk 30595]

It's half the electorate not caring again.

[Gemmill 44848]

 

 

[ewerk 30595]

 

[Gemmill 44848]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/05/dont-sign-pledges-on-nhs-or-climate-tory-hq-tells-candidates

 

Should be an easy win for opposition parties here. I can see the Tories completely fucking this campaign up.