Politics

[Rayvin 5223]

We knew it was Labour MPs anyway didn't we?

 

I don't think you follow the thrust of my argument on this

 

Still though, I guess that's another front page for Gloom.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Again, I’d put it to you Rayvin, is this not newsworthy? Though the BBC, guardian and other MSM websites aren’t splashing with it, notably. Just the times, because it was their scoop. 

This story actually paints Corbyn in a much better light over Labour’s antisemitism problem as he actually admits there is a genuine problem. Why he can’t say this stuff on the record is beyond me. All he has done in this recording of a private conversation is admit what I have been saying all along. 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

So essentially, what I’m saying, is I’m right, you’re wrong.

[Rayvin 5223]

Tbh mate, I wasn't looking to get into this again

 

I haven't read the story. Let's just agree that you're right.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Yes, let’s always agree that I’m right. I like that 

[ewerk 30617]

Oh dear, the MSM is at it again. Forcing Labour shadow Cabinet members to lie about what they've said.

 

[Meenzer 15531]

 

 

 

[ewerk 30617]

Owen Jones going with the 'you have to vote Labour to defeat the Brexit Party' line. Conveniently ignoring the fact that Labour are officially pro-Brexit.

[Rayvin 5223]

Indeed. Labour need to fucking earn that particular statement.

 

It's kind of heartening to see that UKIP's swing to the right has failed to rally any significant support to them though. I would prefer we lost to the Brexit Party than UKIP.

 

Assuming the Labour voter base is almost entirely Remain (big assumption, I know), I think we can infer the following:

 

Leave - 49%

 

Remain - 47%

 

Not sure where the other 4% has gone, maybe on independents?

[NJS 4386]

So you still don't accept that Labour voters outside of the cities are still pro-brexit?

 

 

[Rayvin 5223]

2 hours ago, NJS said:

So you still don't accept that Labour voters outside of the cities are still pro-brexit?

 

 

 

It's not that, it's just that presumably if they're pro-Brexit, they're backing Brexit parties.

[Rayvin 5223]

I mean the alternative seems to be that we accept that comfortably north of 50% of the country is pro-leave, which seems... counter to any polls I've seen?

[Monkeys Fist 42458]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I mean the alternative seems to be that we accept that comfortably north of 50% of the country is pro-leave, which seems... counter to any polls I've seen?

Never, ever, underestimate just how fucking stupid the vast majority of ordinary people are. 

 

 

[RobinRobin 11281]

4 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Never, ever, underestimate just how fucking stupid the vast majority of ordinary people are. 

 

 

 

[NJS 4386]

7 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

It's not that, it's just that presumably if they're pro-Brexit, they're backing Brexit parties.

They may still vote Labour with the current policy which attempts to satisfy both sides - coming out as pure remain/second ref might cost them those votes offseting the gains - that's what I'm saying. 

[ewerk 30617]

I’m not sure the normal party loyalties apply to European elections, particularly this one and especially for pro-Brexiters.

[NJS 4386]

It is ironic to see all the "we have no say" fuckers voting though. 

[ewerk 30617]

Well when they elect absolute chancers who rarely bother showing up to do their job then maybe I can see where they get that idea.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Fucking hell

 

[Rayvin 5223]

Ignore the fact that we've been back and forth on this to death, because actually what I'm about to ask is a genuine question rather than a challenge.

 

Is that antisemitism?

[ewerk 30617]

Nah, it's the views of a completely normal, rational human being. Nothing to ... SIEG HEIL!... see here.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

13 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Ignore the fact that we've been back and forth on this to death, because actually what I'm about to ask is a genuine question rather than a challenge.

 

Is that antisemitism?

 

Do you accept the difference between Zionism and Israeli illegal occupation and expansion?

[Rayvin 5223]

I think the "genuine Jews" comment is leading towards some manner of anti-semitic statement for sure. Is that the main issue?

 

I'm just a bit concerned that the main issue might be the attack on "Zionists". This is of course clearly not antisemitism (and would affect non-Jews in Labour as well, if I understand it correctly).

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

Just now, Rayvin said:

I think the "genuine Jews" comment is leading towards some manner of anti-semitic statement for sure. Is that the main issue?

 

I'm just a bit concerned that the main issue might be the attack on "Zionists". This is of course clearly not antisemitism (and would affect non-Jews in Labour as well, if I understand it correctly).

 

How is it clearly not anti semitism and what qualifies you to make that statement?

[Rayvin 5223]

1 minute ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

 

Do you accept the difference between Zionism and Israeli illegal occupation and expansion?

 

Zionism pertaining to the creation of a Jewish homeland? Does it specify that it has to be Israel?

 

I think my longstanding difficulty with this has been that a bunch of non-white people were effectively shat upon from a great height. Had a Jewish homeland been somehow created in a white European state, or maybe if it had been developed gradually over time in the middle east, then I personally wouldn't have any discomfort with the situation. And I do feel that a homeland is vital to them and that they should of course have one (as should we all, I suppose). Does that make me a Zionist?