ewerk 30259 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, NJS said: lose the moderately left wing manifesto and you'll lose the youth. He isn't being asked to move to the centre, just to play the game a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: He isn't being asked to move to the centre, just to play the game a little. I agree and I've said I'd be happy to have a proper bruiser but I'm just worried there aren't any obvious ones who'd be as leftist. Maybe Thornberry but I'm not sure where she really stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21293 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, NJS said: All of the Torry governments in my lifetime have either been cunts or divided. The whole brexit thing is because of divisions that have been there since heath yet they still always get their 30 to 40 percent. The only time that didn't happen was when the alternative was tory lite. That's just how Britain is. The generational trends suggest this may be changing but as I said, lose the moderately left wing manifesto and you'll lose the youth. You're making out that this is a typical Tory government and party. You must know that is bullshit? Where is your evidence that the youth will only back Corbyn or similar? As for your Tory lite rubbish, we'll always fundamentally disagree on that. What this country is desperate for now is a centrist government, not the lunatics on either extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30259 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, NJS said: I agree and I've said I'd be happy to have a proper bruiser but I'm just worried there aren't any obvious ones who'd be as leftist. Maybe Thornberry but I'm not sure where she really stands. Which of his left wing policies would you really like to see enacted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21293 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) Lexit presumably. I want to see the evidence of massive youth support (electoral, not party) for Corbyn. Hmmmn. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-42747342 Edited August 14, 2018 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, Renton said: You're making out that this is a typical Tory government and party. You must know that is bullshit? Where is your evidence that the youth will only back Corbyn or similar? As for your Tory lite rubbish, we'll always fundamentally disagree on that. What this country is desperate for now is a centrist government, not the lunatics on either extreme. No different in hurting the poor than Thatcher, just as divided and weak as Cameron. The increase in the youth vote in 2017 wasn't due to tory cuntishness, it was due to a manifesto a bit different Centrist governments favour the elites and the rich, see the rest of Europe and the US pre-trump. Or indeed Blair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, ewerk said: Which of his left wing policies would you really like to see enacted? Nationalisation, social housing, investment in research and manufacturing. A proper clampdown on tax avoidance and evasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30259 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Just now, NJS said: Nationalisation, social housing, investment in research and manufacturing. A proper clampdown on tax avoidance and evasion. Aside from nationalisation, which I'm not convinced is a brilliant idea, I don't see how a centre left leader in this climate wouldn't be in favour of those policies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21293 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 minute ago, NJS said: No different in hurting the poor than Thatcher, just as divided and weak as Cameron. The increase in the youth vote in 2017 wasn't due to tory cuntishness, it was due to a manifesto a bit different Centrist governments favour the elites and the rich, see the rest of Europe and the US pre-trump. Or indeed Blair. It's a myth. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-42747342 Centrist governments favour the elites? What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21293 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, NJS said: Nationalisation, social housing, investment in research and manufacturing. A proper clampdown on tax avoidance and evasion. How come, as a centrist, I am in favour if all that (with caveats on nationalisation)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, ewerk said: Aside from nationalisation, which I'm not convinced is a brilliant idea, I don't see how a centre left leader in this climate wouldn't be in favour of those policies. Well replying to Renton as well, Blair never went within a million miles of any of those and in fact continued privatising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30259 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, NJS said: Well replying to Renton as well, Blair never went within a million miles of any of those and in fact continued privatising. Blair wasn't perfect, no political leader is. He didn't turn Britain into an utopia but he did a lot of good things. Not every centre left leader is going to be a Blair clone. Britain is a different place than in 1997 albeit with a lot of recurring problems. It is possible that the centre left have learnt from his mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21293 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, NJS said: Well replying to Renton as well, Blair never went within a million miles of any of those and in fact continued privatising. What ewerk said. Blair pumped unprecedented amounts of money into healthcare and education, and domestically the UK was a better place than it had been for decades. His foreign policy however...... But I'm not asking for Blair or a clone. Just a pragmatist who will maximise the economy and have policies to redistribute the wealth generated. Someone competent. Oh aye, and not someone who flys hundreds of miles to honour Islamic terrorists or who is pro-Brexit. Too much to ask? Edited August 14, 2018 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 The thing is Blair didn't undo any of Thatcher's crimes. He may have funded things well (though too much pfi) but overall he continued where major left off. I worry that a new generation centrist will do the same. Nothing ambitious, just pissing around the edges with a more human face. I hope for better and there's enough untapped wealth and sense of community in this country to at least try. Possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I should add that plenty of so called respectable people have laid wreaths (which Corbyn didn't even do) on the graves of terrorists turned statesmen including Israeli PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21293 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, NJS said: The thing is Blair didn't undo any of Thatcher's crimes. He may have funded things well (though too much pfi) but overall he continued where major left off. I worry that a new generation centrist will do the same. Nothing ambitious, just pissing around the edges with a more human face. I hope for better and there's enough untapped wealth and sense of community in this country to at least try. Possibly. I get that you're a bit of an idealist whereas I'm a pragmatist. Now, practically speaking, where will Corbyn get you? He'll most likely deliver you Johnson, Gove, or Mogg as PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21293 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 minute ago, NJS said: I should add that plenty of so called respectable people have laid wreaths (which Corbyn didn't even do) on the graves of terrorists turned statesmen including Israeli PMs. These were just dead terrorists afaik. And he was photoed with the wreath in his hand. Stop excusing him, it was a bloody mental thing to do. As you said earlier, what else is in his closet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Renton said: I get that you're a bit of an idealist whereas I'm a pragmatist. Now, practically speaking, where will Corbyn get you? He'll most likely deliver you Johnson, Gove, or Mogg as PM. Fair point on the idealism. Possibly but a new party will guarantee it and I'm not convinced any of the Blairites would stop it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Renton said: These were just dead terrorists afaik. And he was photoed with the wreath in his hand. Stop excusing him, it was a bloody mental thing to do. As you said earlier, what else is in his closet? The most senior plo member in the cemetery and being honoured was supposedly the first one who talked about recognising Israel and moving away from all out violence. Him going there to honour the Munich killers is a downright lie. As I said at the start it's one of the naive/stupid things he did when he didn't matter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30259 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, NJS said: The most senior plo member in the cemetery and being honoured was supposedly the first one who talked about recognising Israel and moving away from all out violence. Him going there to honour the Munich killers is a downright lie. As I said at the start it's one of the naive/stupid things he did when he didn't matter. Eh? He said he was going there to honour Bseiso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, ewerk said: Eh? He said he was going there to honour Bseiso. I've only read him speaking about the 1985 bombing victims. If not then fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30259 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, NJS said: I've only read him speaking about the 1985 bombing victims. If not then fair enough. He also mention those killed in Paris in 1991 so you have to assume he was referring to Bseiso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Of course going around killing their enemies ex judice no matter how bad things they've done are is another thing they get away with far too easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34838 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Simon Reeve's book One Day in September (the companion to the Oscar-winning documentary of the same name) about the Munich terror attack is a really good read. Also details the subsequent Mossad assasinations of those deemed responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 My main issue with Corbyn is that he seems to be a bit thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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