Politics

[Rayvin 5217]

The case appears to be that we can't confirm that it came from Russia. Not yet at least.

 

All I'm saying is that maybe we should have approached this with a considered, and evidence supported assessment. And potentially have said what the truth is. That it is highly likely that Russia was behind it, but that we don't actually fucking know.

What we said instead, was:

 

On 14/03/2018 at 15:44, ewerk said:

The evidence has been pretty conclusive hasn't it? Doesn't seem the sort of thing worth questioning in public at the moment.

[Alex 35077]

42 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Johnson misspoke. But it doesn’t in any way weaken the case that it was Russia behind it all.

It does a bit, purely in terms of public perception which is all that seems to matter these days anyway. Also, he didn't misspeak, he lied by categorically stating that Porton Down had identified the source as Russia when no such thing had occurred. The Foreign Office have even subsequently deleted the tweet from last month with the claim. He's massively strengthened the Russian's hand in their propaganda war (which is essentially all this has been since the off). I think the Russians are behind it for what it's worth but they can now point at every single subsequent claim by the UK and point out they were lying about what they knew from the beginning.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

6 hours ago, Rayvin said:

@Christmas Tree

 

Thoughts?

 

I’m away on holiday with intermittent internet and not upto to my usual newshound behaviour.

 

From a quick google it appears that a bit of “clumsy” language has the corbynistas frothing at the mouth?

 

As far as I’m aware most normal countries and people still believe that the ex Russian spy, poisoned with weapons grade nerve agent on UK soil was attacked by Russia.

 

https://t.co/KhhiauXeCI

[Rayvin 5217]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

I’m away on holiday with intermittent internet and not upto to my usual newshound behaviour.

 

From a quick google it appears that a bit of “clumsy” language has the corbynistas frothing at the mouth?

 

As far as I’m aware most normal countries and people still believe that the ex Russian spy, poisoned with weapons grade nerve agent on UK soil was attacked by Russia.

 

https://t.co/KhhiauXeCI

 

Not just the Corbynistas, also the Daily Mail comment sections and most right thinking people

 

[Alex 35077]

There’s nothing clumsy about it. It’s inconceivable he wasn’t fully aware of the fact he was lying, which is something he’s got a track record of. It’s a pretty major international incident now and he deliberately mislead both the public and our allies. You can’t have it both ways, ie this is a very big deal (which your comments since the incident certainly suggest is your belief, CT) then just brush off a cabinet minister lying about it as next to nowt. 

[ewerk 30596]

15 hours ago, Alex said:

It does a bit, purely in terms of public perception which is all that seems to matter these days anyway. Also, he didn't misspeak, he lied by categorically stating that Porton Down had identified the source as Russia when no such thing had occurred. The Foreign Office have even subsequently deleted the tweet from last month with the claim. He's massively strengthened the Russian's hand in their propaganda war (which is essentially all this has been since the off). I think the Russians are behind it for what it's worth but they can now point at every single subsequent claim by the UK and point out they were lying about what they knew from the beginning.

Yeah, that's fair enough, it was more than a case of misspeaking. But it's one of those situations where the PM has to back him regardless, even though she wouldn't have been able to sack him anyway given her tenuous grasp on control of her party.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

4 hours ago, Alex said:

There’s nothing clumsy about it. It’s inconceivable he wasn’t fully aware of the fact he was lying, which is something he’s got a track record of. It’s a pretty major international incident now and he deliberately mislead both the public and our allies. You can’t have it both ways, ie this is a very big deal (which your comments since the incident certainly suggest is your belief, CT) then just brush off a cabinet minister lying about it as next to nowt. 

 

As I said, I’m away and not up with much other than a quick google last night, but going off that times article it seems to fall short of lying.

[Andrew 4748]

Quote

The interviewer asked him: “You argue that the source of this nerve agent, Novichok, is Russia. How did you manage to find it out so quickly? Does Britain possess samples of it?”

During the course of a long response, Mr Johnson appeared to suggest that scientists from the UK’s military laboratory were adamant that the Novichok was Russian-made.

He said: “I genuinely think Russia is an incredible country, a fantastic place, and it pains me to see the way things have got between us. So, I’m genuinely distressed by what has happened. But when I look at the evidence; I mean, the people from Porton Down, the laboratory…”

“They have the samples?” the interviewer interjected.

“They do,” replied Mr Johnson. “They do. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, ‘Are you sure?’ And he said there’s no doubt.”

 

That is a lie, pure and simple.

 

Categorical you might say.

 

 

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Shit's getting weird.

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/lord-sugar-intensifies-attack-on-stud-jeremy-corbyn-with-bizarre-poem-11317806

[ewerk 30596]

Nah, it’s just Alan Sugar being a cunt.

[Rayvin 5217]

So it seems an assortment of millionaire fuckheads are establishing a new party of 'the centre' in the latest bid by the rich to do anything they possibly can to prevent a left wing victory.

 

I predict this new party will get far more coverage than it deserves.

 

[ewerk 30596]

Blair for PM!

[Meenzer 15518]

 

[Renton 21605]

On 08/04/2018 at 07:50, Rayvin said:

So it seems an assortment of millionaire fuckheads are establishing a new party of 'the centre' in the latest bid by the rich to do anything they possibly can to prevent a left wing victory.

 

I predict this new party will get far more coverage than it deserves.

 

Yeah! Fuck centrist politics, the centrist bastards!

[Rayvin 5217]

11 minutes ago, Renton said:

Yeah! Fuck centrist politics, the centrist bastards!

 

I hope we end up centrist but now isnt the time. Theyre only going to split the left and entrench the Tories. Which is the only reason they exist.

[ewerk 30596]

Nah, I can't see them making any impact.

[Renton 21605]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

 

I hope we end up centrist but now isnt the time. Theyre only going to split the left and entrench the Tories. Which is the only reason they exist.

 

The Tories have veered to the extreme right. Why couldn't a new centrist party attract wet Tories. I realise its unlikely but for the first time in my life I'm not voting Labour in the local elections. Tbh I hope Labour are annihilated. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Renton

[NJS 4378]

Clegg refusing to rule out joining the new party - as expected by cunts, for cunts. 

[ewerk 30596]

Is Clegg really that bad?

[Renton 21605]

Ahh, so if you have a centrist anti-Brexit viewpoint, you're officially a cunt now? Thanks for clearing that up. 

[Renton 21605]

Just now, ewerk said:

Is Clegg really that bad?

 

Compared to 90% of MPs he seems okay to me.

[NJS 4378]

Well their list of "values" included low immigration as well as being pro Europe plus being in favour of "entrepreneurs" i.e.a mix of NL and ukip policies meant to attract "soft" labour voters. 

 

The only possible result, like the fucking SDP, is more tory governments. 

 

 

[NJS 4378]

I'd add Renton that despite thinking  Brexit is the stupidest thing this country has ever done, its almost a sailed ship - all anyone can do is try and make the best of it. 

 

Basing an entire thing on reversing it is pretty much a waste of time in the short/medium term. 

[ewerk 30596]

I wouldn’t be so sure.

[Renton 21605]

1 minute ago, NJS said:

I'd add Renton that despite thinking  Brexit is the stupidest thing this country has ever done, its almost a sailed ship - all anyone can do is try and make the best of it. 

 

Basing an entire thing on reversing it is pretty much a waste of time in the short/medium term. 

 

I confess I haven't bothered reading about them because I fully agree with your last comment.

 

However, my issue with current Labour is Corbyn's duplicit stance on Brexit and his lack of effectiveness in opposition against the worst government in history. I fear with him in charge we will have more Tory government regardless.