Politics

[Christmas Tree 4729]

2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Why won't you answer his SIMPLE QUESTION?

 

I asked first.

[Alex 35103]

9 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

It was a simple question which you didn’t answer?

He did, basically. And that's a statement btw

[The Fish 10870]

5 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

I asked first.

Woohoosh

[Park Life 71]

........and the beat goes on...

[Dr Gloom 21959]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

 

 

 

Oooff.

 

that was her zinger 

[Christmas Tree 4729]

6 minutes ago, Alex said:

He did, basically. And that's a statement btw

 

He didn’t, I’ll repeat it.

 

Assuming a deal is agreed, which bits of the cake do they think we will not get?

 

Obviously different remainers have different answers based on their viewpoint. 

 

Simply pointing out humps in the process has nothing to do with my question.

 

Im genuinely interested what the different views are. Sure if you think it’s impossible to get any deal then the questions not for.

[Christmas Tree 4729]

9 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Woohoosh

 

Sorry, don’t get it

[Alex 35103]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

He didn’t, I’ll repeat it.

 

Assuming a deal is agreed, which bits of the cake do they think we will not get?

 

Obviously different remainers have different answers based on their viewpoint. 

 

Simply pointing out humps in the process has nothing to do with my question.

 

Im genuinely interested what the different views are. Sure if you think it’s impossible to get any deal then the questions not for.

Pointed out obstacles to a deal have nothing to do with a question about a deal

You utter fucking simpleton

[Gemmill 44971]

Aye, it was brutal.  She's so fucking weird - you see her stood talking and I can't work out what events must have happened for a person to have arrived, fully formed, as the absolute cabbage that she is.  And then for her to have been put in charge of the fucking country.  She's got zero charisma, she can't think on her feet, and she's completely unrelatable.

 

It's the same with the whole Brexit situation.  How the fuck is it that we find ourselves with David Davis negotiating the future of the country?  Another total shpenk, seemingly no intellect to speak of, and he's the lad that they've put in charge of it.  

 

I mean what the fuck.  

[Dr Gloom 21959]

3 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

There’s nothing at all isolationist about Corbyn or Brexit.

 

The simplistic “having our cake and eating” position is without doubt the most beneficial economical position for this country. The only issue is how close to this position we can agree.

 

Wanting to continue as we are with regard to EU trade, security, euratom, education etc and wanting to open up more free markets around the world is anything but isolationism.

 

 

 

 

[The Fish 10870]

6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Sorry, don’t get it

Colour me surprised.

[Alex 35103]

12 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Aye, it was brutal.  She's so fucking weird - you see her stood talking and I can't work out what events must have happened for a person to have arrived, fully formed, as the absolute cabbage that she is.  And then for her to have been put in charge of the fucking country.  She's got zero charisma, she can't think on her feet, and she's completely unrelatable.

 

It's the same with the whole Brexit situation.  How the fuck is it that we find ourselves with David Davis negotiating the future of the country?  Another total shpenk, seemingly no intellect to speak of, and he's the lad that they've put in charge of it.  

 

I mean what the fuck.  

I assumed she did it as payback for him being a prominent(-ish) Brexiteer, i.e. "go on then, you wanted this, you sort it out". Similar to Johnson getting the Foreign Office gig. Gove got nowt because he's an incompetent cunt even amongst that lot. May was seemingly unaware that their making a hash of things would reflect more on her than it would on those two.

[Christmas Tree 4729]

23 minutes ago, Alex said:

Pointed out obstacles to a deal have nothing to do with a question about a deal

You utter fucking simpleton

 

The question implied a deal is agreed.

 

Who’s the simpleton

[Renton 21640]

9 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

He didn’t, I’ll repeat it.

 

Assuming a deal is agreed, which bits of the cake do they think we will not get?

 

Obviously different remainers have different answers based on their viewpoint. 

 

Simply pointing out humps in the process has nothing to do with my question.

 

Im genuinely interested what the different views are. Sure if you think it’s impossible to get any deal then the questions not for.

 

It's pretty simple, we either accept all four freedoms or we get none. What is it about that you don't understand? The EU have repeatedly said this for years now. They are united. They are not bluffing. There may be some leeway on FOM but not much.

 

Of course this is entirely incompatible with May's red lines and would send the Brexiters into a mouth frothing frenzy. So this option really relies on a change of government.

 

The alternative will be to crash out on WTO rules and negotiate a bilateral deal but this will take years because, well, precedent says it does, especially with the EU who have 27 stakeholders all wanting the best for their own economies. Often politics trump economics btw. And, as I keep on reminding you, as well as going out the single market we will also lose all our deals with third countries the EU has negotiated with. The bigger economies like the US are protectionist in nature and will bend us over the table, as has already been demonstrated.

 

Tariffs aren't even the biggest issue, non-tariff barriers are. The port of Dover estimates that just a 2 minute increase in time taken to do paperwork per vehicle at the port will result in a 17 mile HGV tail back! The havoc created to sensitive supply lines will be enough to see off Nissan and company who are only based here because they have free access to the much larger EU market. Then there's the duplication of regulatory authorities which will cost billions. And then there is the intractable issue of NI which I think is the key to all this as there truly is no solution as far as I can see. No sensible solution has been suggested anyway and strangely enough it's a tad politically sensitive.   

 

So I've given you two scenarios that I think might happen, now I've done that, in your own words, what do you think will happen?

[Alex 35103]

11 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

The question implied a deal is agreed.

 

Who’s the simpleton

You couldn't make this shit up

[Dr Gloom 21959]

8 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

It's pretty simple, we either accept all four freedoms or we get none. What is it about that you don't understand? The EU have repeatedly said this for years now. They are united. They are not bluffing. There may be some leeway on FOM but not much.

 

Of course this is entirely incompatible with May's red lines and would send the Brexiters into a mouth frothing frenzy. So this option really relies on a change of government.

 

The alternative will be to crash out on WTO rules and negotiate a bilateral deal but this will take years because, well, precedent says it does, especially with the EU who have 27 stakeholders all wanting the best for their own economies. Often politics trump economics btw. And, as I keep on reminding you, as well as going out the single market we will also lose all our deals with third countries the EU has negotiated with. The bigger economies like the US are protectionist in nature and will bend us over the table, as has already been demonstrated.

 

Tariffs aren't even the biggest issue, non-tariff barriers are. The port of Dover estimates that just a 2 minute increase in time taken to do paperwork per vehicle at the port will result in a 17 mile HGV tail back! The havoc created to sensitive supply lines will be enough to see off Nissan and company who are only based here because they have free access to the much larger EU market. Then there's the duplication of regulatory authorities which will cost billions. And then there is the intractable issue of NI which I think is the key to all this as there truly is no solution as far as I can see. No sensible solution has been suggested anyway and strangely enough it's a tad politically sensitive.   

 

So I've given you two scenarios that I think might happen, now I've done that, in your own words, what do you think will happen?

 

CT will have his cake and it, duh!

 

... probably a nice mr kipling number. 

[Christmas Tree 4729]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

It's pretty simple, we either accept all four freedoms or we get none. What is it about that you don't understand? The EU have repeatedly said this for years now. They are united. They are not bluffing. There may be some leeway on FOM but not much.

 

Of course this is entirely incompatible with May's red lines and would send the Brexiters into a mouth frothing frenzy. So this option really relies on a change of government.

 

The alternative will be to crash out on WTO rules and negotiate a bilateral deal but this will take years because, well, precedent says it does, especially with the EU who have 27 stakeholders all wanting the best for their own economies. Often politics trump economics btw. And, as I keep on reminding you, as well as going out the single market we will also lose all our deals with third countries the EU has negotiated with. The bigger economies like the US are protectionist in nature and will bend us over the table, as has already been demonstrated.

 

Tariffs aren't even the biggest issue, non-tariff barriers are. The port of Dover estimates that just a 2 minute increase in time taken to do paperwork per vehicle at the port will result in a 17 mile HGV tail back! The havoc created to sensitive supply lines will be enough to see off Nissan and company who are only based here because they have free access to the much larger EU market. Then there's the duplication of regulatory authorities which will cost billions. And then there is the intractable issue of NI which I think is the key to all this as there truly is no solution as far as I can see. No sensible solution has been suggested anyway and strangely enough it's a tad politically sensitive.   

 

So I've given you two scenarios that I think might happen, now I've done that, in your own words, what do you think will happen?

 

Based on your first paragraph I assume your position is we won’t get a deal? Fair enough.

 

We’ve already said we leave the EU in March 2019. Being a full member of the single market and customs union ends and the four freedoms no longer apply.

 

Understanding all of the above, the EU have started negotiations with us to tie up “divorce” proceedings AND discuss future trade arrangements. Even yesterday they confirmed they are hoping to move onto future trade arrangements by December with a view to an implantation period of two years starting March 30th 2019.

 

So, EU and UK are AGREED that we want a deal and AGREED about implementing that deal. Neither party wants a no deal situation.

 

If we can agree the above is fact and where we are, in then comes down to the compromises each side will make to secure that deal.

 

The most simplistic (and likely) scenario is that we continue in a similar trade and customs arrangement as we are currently in without actually being called a “full member”. We won’t have to abide by the four freedoms but will probably have to pay a membership fee. This will solve most problems and will be acceptable to both sides.

[Meenzer 15552]

Except to the right-wing press, who'll keep dividing the country with their anti-EU rhetoric for as long as we're paying a single penny to those dirty foreigners.

[Alex 35103]

It's all gone so smoothly so far though, against the backdrop of a booming economy. It's so fucking cracking

[Christmas Tree 4729]

16 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

Except to the right-wing press, who'll keep dividing the country with their anti-EU rhetoric for as long as we're paying a single penny to those dirty foreigners.

 

Sure ther will a few unhappy with that deal but it will be a handful. The overwhelming majority of labour and conservative MP’s will snap this up and move on.

[Renton 21640]

38 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Based on your first paragraph I assume your position is we won’t get a deal? Fair enough.

 

We’ve already said we leave the EU in March 2019. Being a full member of the single market and customs union ends and the four freedoms no longer apply.

 

Understanding all of the above, the EU have started negotiations with us to tie up “divorce” proceedings AND discuss future trade arrangements. Even yesterday they confirmed they are hoping to move onto future trade arrangements by December with a view to an implantation period of two years starting March 30th 2019.

 

So, EU and UK are AGREED that we want a deal and AGREED about implementing that deal. Neither party wants a no deal situation.

 

If we can agree the above is fact and where we are, in then comes down to the compromises each side will make to secure that deal.

 

The most simplistic (and likely) scenario is that we continue in a similar trade and customs arrangement as we are currently in without actually being called a “full member”. We won’t have to abide by the four freedoms but will probably have to pay a membership fee. This will solve most problems and will be acceptable to both sides.

I give up. We can't cherry pick the parts we want to keep and dump the others. The EU have been crystal clear on this from the outset. There is literally zero chance we are getting a better deal out than in. 

 

We literally can't remain in the customs union and then make our own deals around the world, which I thought was the main reason you wanted out. Can you not work out why? I'm not going to explain it to you because it's so basic it literally means you are clueless. There will absolutely have to a hard border in NI if we leave the CU.

 

The EU may agree to a bilateral deal that benefits them. But this will take years and crucially won't include services.

 

You are absolute evidence this referendum was a terrible idea. 

[ewerk 30647]

44 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

The most simplistic (and likely) scenario is that we continue in a similar trade and customs arrangement as we are currently in without actually being called a “full member”. We won’t have to abide by the four freedoms but will probably have to pay a membership fee. This will solve most problems and will be acceptable to both sides.

 

Aye. The details will work themselves out.

[Gemmill 44971]

CT is Brexit's Chemical Ali.

[Meenzer 15552]

Even Mr Brexit thinks we're bollocksing it up. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/peering-over-the-cliff-edge-why-dominic-cummings-fears-brexit-will-fail

 

[ewerk 30647]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

Aye, it was brutal.  She's so fucking weird - you see her stood talking and I can't work out what events must have happened for a person to have arrived, fully formed, as the absolute cabbage that she is.  And then for her to have been put in charge of the fucking country.  She's got zero charisma, she can't think on her feet, and she's completely unrelatable.

 

It's the same with the whole Brexit situation.  How the fuck is it that we find ourselves with David Davis negotiating the future of the country?  Another total shpenk, seemingly no intellect to speak of, and he's the lad that they've put in charge of it.  

 

I mean what the fuck.  

 

It's the rise of mediocrity. She's been in a safe Tory seat her entire parliamentary career. She was home secretary which is the sort of job that, while important, no one really notices you unless there's a massive fuck up. She got the PM gig by beating an incredibly weak field of candidates. She's basically got the top job by spending twenty years keeping her head down and not drawing too much attention to herself.