Politics

[Christmas Tree 4729]

8 hours ago, Isegrim said:

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

 

 

That seems a good piece on free trade being good. Not sure what it has to do with my comment on std of living???

[Christmas Tree 4729]

9 hours ago, Renton said:

Virtually everyone has turned into many now I notice? 

 

Not being a drama queen at all CT, but your ignorance disqgusts me, and the alternative is worse, in that you have been wumming us for years. Tbh, I can't tell which it is, I think most on here think the latter.

 

But yeah, people in Ashington, Easington, Consett etc. are much better off now than the 70s? Fuck off you thick, insensitive, twat. 

 

Oh the old wummary / incensed fallback.

 

Check any official facts on stds of living now compared to the 70’s and learn something or stick with your fallback faux rage.

 

Virtually double bled for the poorest families compared to the 70’s

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2015

Edited October 7, 2017 by Christmas Tree

[Gemmill 44967]

STDs were way worse in the 70s tbf to CT. 

[Isegrim 9801]

44 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

That seems a good piece on free trade being good. Not sure what it has to do with my comment on std of living???

Eu should probably read it and think harder....

[Christmas Tree 4729]

15 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

Eu should probably read it and think harder....

 

I did. Nothing in there to dispute that std of living is better now than 70’s.

 

if your point is we are doing so well because of the EU, that’s fine, but not the discussion I was having with Rent boy.

[Kid Dynamite 7034]

Standards of living are better now than 50 years ago? 

 

That goes for nearly every westernised country on the planet ffs. 

[Renton 21640]

52 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

I did. Nothing in there to dispute that std of living is better now than 70’s.

 

if your point is we are doing so well because of the EU, that’s fine, but not the discussion I was having with Rent boy.

 

You said the standard of living had risen for virtually everybody. That's patently untrue for many communities in the North East who took a hammering under Thatcher and later under Cameron and May. 

 

Of course median income has shown an upward increase over time  since the dark ages (Not just the arbitrary 70s).  But does this mean our present system of governance is working? Does it fuck. Take the headline result from that ONS report you quoted:

"non-retired households’ median income in 2014/15 remained 3.1% (£900) below its level in 2007/08."

 

Since 2015 that process has accelerated such that the mean decline in pay is 10.4%, a figure only matched by Greece, and in stark contrast to Germany, where pay has increased in real terms by 15%. This is the issue facing us now, and tbh I'm getting sick of stating the obvious to a moron such as yourself. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Renton

[Rayvin 5223]

He's right CT.

 

Was talking to a taxi driver on the way home yesterday who works for one of the bigger local companies in Newcastle. He was lamenting that the removal of the locality test meant that you had large number of foreign people coming in and doing the job. This in turn was driving wages down as there were more cars on the road and they had to meter at proportionally less. He argued his pay simply didn't go as far these days.

 

Now, his problem isn't the immigrants. His problem is that an aspect of his work has been de-regulated (Free markets) so that greater supply can be achieved without any actual improvement in service. His problem is the local council who deregulated the taxi firm to allow them to maximise their profits by bringing in a load of cheap labour.

 

They've also used inflation as a way of keeping rates stagnant. They simply wait for inflation over a period of years, and keep the rates being paid the same, effectively giving their drivers a paycut.

 

The foreign born taxi drivers aren't the ones doing this to him. It's his employer behaving in a capitalist system, aided and abetted by government at national and local level that is strongly interested in maximising wealth for those at the top. The Tories don't care that you earn less. You're still gainfully employed and you're not starving. In the meantime, one of their ilk has managed to get richer  (whoever owns the firm).

 

That is their entire reason for being. Brexit is like taking out the foreign immigrant in this scenario. We're still left with the parasite. They will continue to exploit us because they are the problem. Not the foreigners.

[Dr Gloom 21959]

CT plucking facts out of thin air again. Good to see nothing's changed there. Still waiting for that slew of positive Brexit stories the broadsheet press has deliberately ignored. 

[Sonatine 11401]

https://thebritishdrea.com/

[Christmas Tree 4729]

5 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Standards of living are better now than 50 years ago? 

 

That goes for nearly every westernised country on the planet ffs. 

 

Yep, seems every western member of society understands this but Renton.

[Christmas Tree 4729]

4 hours ago, Rayvin said:

He's right CT.

 

Was talking to a taxi driver on the way home yesterday who works for one of the bigger local companies in Newcastle. He was lamenting that the removal of the locality test meant that you had large number of foreign people coming in and doing the job. This in turn was driving wages down as there were more cars on the road and they had to meter at proportionally less. He argued his pay simply didn't go as far these days.

 

Now, his problem isn't the immigrants. His problem is that an aspect of his work has been de-regulated (Free markets) so that greater supply can be achieved without any actual improvement in service. His problem is the local council who deregulated the taxi firm to allow them to maximise their profits by bringing in a load of cheap labour.

 

They've also used inflation as a way of keeping rates stagnant. They simply wait for inflation over a period of years, and keep the rates being paid the same, effectively giving their drivers a paycut.

 

The foreign born taxi drivers aren't the ones doing this to him. It's his employer behaving in a capitalist system, aided and abetted by government at national and local level that is strongly interested in maximising wealth for those at the top. The Tories don't care that you earn less. You're still gainfully employed and you're not starving. In the meantime, one of their ilk has managed to get richer  (whoever owns the firm).

 

That is their entire reason for being. Brexit is like taking out the foreign immigrant in this scenario. We're still left with the parasite. They will continue to exploit us because they are the problem. Not the foreigners.

 

Hes not. I’m comparing the average working mans standard of living from the 70’s to now. Virtually doubled by every measure going.

 

As for your general point that’s the free market for you and it’s not going to change. 

 

Surely though, some future uk government would have more chance of achieving your “goal” outside of a massive free market?

[Christmas Tree 4729]

4 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

CT plucking facts out of thin air again. Good to see nothing's changed there. Still waiting for that slew of positive Brexit stories the broadsheet press has deliberately ignored. 

 

ONS, thin air

[Ayatollah Hermione 13886]

19 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Yep, seems every western member of society understands this but Renton.

 

 He wasn't agreeing with you

[Dr Gloom 21959]

Oh my, CT

[Renton 21640]

17 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

ONS, thin air

Fuck me. The executive summary in that ONS article highlights living standards for workers have decreased in the last 10 years. I even cut and pasted the relevant sentence. Neiloberalism Is failing under this government. 

[Christmas Tree 4729]

2 hours ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

 

 He wasn't agreeing with you

 

He may not have meant to but he did.

[Christmas Tree 4729]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

Fuck me. The executive summary in that ONS article highlights living standards for workers have decreased in the last 10 years. I even cut and pasted the relevant sentence. Neiloberalism Is failing under this government. 

 

  Nice wiggle but that’s not what we were discussing

 

Standard of living > Average working man > pre Thatcher compared to now.

 

Fuck me I’d forgotten how slippery this place gets when an argument is on the line

 

I’m outa this one

[Meenzer 15552]

Chance'd be a fine thing

[Renton 21640]

48 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

  Nice wiggle but that’s not what we were discussing

 

Standard of living > Average working man > pre Thatcher compared to now.

 

Fuck me I’d forgotten how slippery this place gets when an argument is on the line

 

I’m outa this one

Good. Because it's a fucking stupid discussion. Of course living standards have risen steadily since the dark ages. But my points were:

1) Not everyone has experienced improvements, especially not in this region. Not everyone has a car and foreign holidays. You said virtually everybody has.

 

2) As has been noted, living standards have been on an upward trajectory for centuries in the western world, irrespective of government. It's the natural way of things, irrespective of political philosophy. Except for the last 10 years, in this country (and Greece) specifically. We have both declined by over 10%, whilst virtually every other country has increased. Hmm. I wonder which political party is chiefly responsible for this? 

 

These are facts. But from a personal point of view, since your mate Dave got in I have suffered 8 consecutive years of pay freezes or below inflation rates meaning that I am 20% worse off pay wise. Meanwhile, my workload has increased so much that I am working 2 or 3 days unpaid overtime a month and am constantly worried I will make a mistake which would cost the NHS an absolute fortune, as well as wrecking my reputation.

 

Standard of living is one thing, quality of life is another. I literally know no-one who thinks their quality of life is better now than a decade ago. Maybe I'm just at a stressful age in life, with too many responsbilities, maybe it's normal. However, I recall 7 years ago that I told you living under a conservative government in this region is invariably shit. Strangely enough, I feel fully vindicated in that. 

 

Edit: oh and the implication from you that Thatcher is behind improved living standards. What a fucking dick. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Renton

[NJS 4389]

It always used to bug me when Thatcher was hailed for turning Britain around when other countries who were ran by left wing governments did just as well without as much pain. 

 

Of course there's natural progress due to technology mainly but things like housing have been so fucked up in the last forty years it will take a huge turnaround to restore what I'd call a reasonable society. 

 

What has happened is that people have been beaten down to expect nothing better and accept that it's ok to pay such a high proportion of their income in mortgage/rent based on the idea they'll be ok later as well as believing shite like the economy being like a household budget and there being no money left (CT). 

 

I think now however it's gone on for so long that people have snapped and that's why the cunts are panicking - most of their votes are coming from the selfish old and now the young are actually voting they're fucked. It might all go tits up but I'm glad people have finally got off their knees and are saying "no more". 

[Gemmill 44967]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0199283273/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1507437376&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=david+harvey

 

Have a read of that book, CT. I think you'll find it interesting and it'll be genuinely eye opening. 

[Ayatollah Hermione 13886]

Do they not have an audio book version read by Paul McKenna?

[PaddockLad 17286]

Maybe a good way of measuring this sort of thing (for those of us brought up in the 70s/80s) is to have a think as to whether our mothers a. went back to work after children? and if they did b. was the income vital to the weekly family budget?

 

My mum did a few cleaning jobs after we were all at high school and we went on ski-ing trips and the French exchange thing, all of which the old man paid for. We were far from deprived just on his income, he was a jobbing chippy/general builder in rural southeast Scotland where wages for anyone have never been high. Speaking very generally and looking at my friends and their families who are almost all similar blue collar folk and at a similar stage of their lives, they have to jump through massive finacial hoops to be able just to pay the bills, in some cases the wives work two/three jobs and I know one couple who used to qualify for tax credits with both of them working. This, as I've mentioned before, on England's south coast in one of the country's wealthiest boroughs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom 14012]

Lol the 70s where people could buy a house for £10,000 and leave University without £70,000 worth of debt.

 

For a lot of people these days work doesn't pay and a lot of people who didn't have a head start are struggling and itll be an endless struggle.

 

Did 1,000,000 use foodbanks in the 70s? Did people have their meagre pay smashed by pay day loan sharks? Curious like....