Politics

[Park Life 71]

It's a wild fire on his heed.

[adios 717]

They'll go as far as electing a black but a ginger? Never.

I was thinking the same thing when I posted it.

[Renton 21606]

Potsie for president.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Renton

[Alex 35077]

I can't quite believe how even it was at the first round given this result, but I suppose all three other candidates voters were unlikely to turn out for Le Pen.

 

That's the Eu stabilized then. Good.

Surely the EU is a bastion of neo-liberalism though

[adios 717]

It's not hypocritical so be glad that Macron (for example) won and be fucked off at Neoliberalism.

 

Do we really have faith that the current stock of centre-leftists are going to fight enough for the impending mass unemployed in the near future?

[Rayvin 5217]

Surely the EU is a bastion of neo-liberalism though

It is, yes. It's also the only thing holding Europe together though. And also, it's far less so than the UK is. A much lesser form of the same issue.

[Renton 21606]

It is, yes. It's also the only thing holding Europe together though. And also, it's far less so than the UK is. A much lesser form of the same issue.

You can't even name a single country in the world you think has a good political system man. Literally, not one. Can you even define what you do want? I mean, taking into account the global competition the UK exists in? Anyway, I doubt it. Every time you mention the term "neoliberalism", which is every other sentence, I roll my eyes. It doesn't even mean anything outside the concept of mixed capitalistic and socialistic economies. Would you like to go to one extreme or the other? If so, can you give an example?

[Park Life 71]

Poor Rayvin locked in a sauna with Gloom and Renton.

[Meenzer 15518]

I've been to saunas like that

[Rayvin 5217]

You can't even name a single country in the world you think has a good political system man. Literally, not one. Can you even define what you do want? I mean, taking into account the global competition the UK exists in? Anyway, I doubt it. Every time you mention the term "neoliberalism", which is every other sentence, I roll my eyes. It doesn't even mean anything outside the concept of mixed capitalistic and socialistic economies. Would you like to go to one extreme or the other? If so, can you give an example?

I genuinely don't think you read half my posts, as I feel like I have to keep re-answering the same questions.

 

I do not want to abandon capitalism.

 

I do not want to go from one extreme to another.

 

I do not have an personal ideological driver behind my views.

 

I do believe that the ideology we operate around has failed and is continuing to fail.

 

I believe the evidence of this is apparent when looking at the number of people being left behind and how they are now voting.

 

I believe they will continue to vote far right until meaningful change can be offered to them.

 

I do not believe Neoliberalism has any mechanism for delivering this change, nor do those who run the world consider it important to do so.

 

I believe that my life is going to be periodically fucked about with by extreme voting outcomes due to this issue.

 

Otherwise, ideologically and politically, your position and my own are the same. The only difference is that I don't believe what we previously considered ideal is working.

 

No I can't suggest another country using any improved version of the system but ffs, we didn't climb out of the primordial soup straight into the free market.

 

If we go back to the centre left as it is now, we are going to keep re-running the past two years. I do not want this. That is the sole, single reason for my views.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3892]

Surely we can now say capitalism has failed.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

I blame the neoliberals

[Renton 21606]

I genuinely don't think you read half my posts, as I feel like I have to keep re-answering the same questions.

 

I do not want to abandon capitalism.

 

I do not want to go from one extreme to another.

 

I do not have an personal ideological driver behind my views.

 

I do believe that the ideology we operate around has failed and is continuing to fail.

 

I believe the evidence of this is apparent when looking at the number of people being left behind and how they are now voting.

 

I believe they will continue to vote far right until meaningful change can be offered to them.

 

I do not believe Neoliberalism has any mechanism for delivering this change, nor do those who run the world consider it important to do so.

 

I believe that my life is going to be periodically fucked about with by extreme voting outcomes due to this issue.

 

Otherwise, ideologically and politically, your position and my own are the same. The only difference is that I don't believe what we previously considered ideal is working.

 

No I can't suggest another country using any improved version of the system but ffs, we didn't climb out of the primordial soup straight into the free market.

 

If we go back to the centre left as it is now, we are going to keep re-running the past two years. I do not want this. That is the sole, single reason for my views.

But again, you complain without offering any solutions.

 

Why can't a social democratic system with progressive taxation work for the large majority? It's wealth redistribution we have wrong in this country which could be easily remedied if we had the will. Privatise those services which could genuinely make efficiency gains through competition, nationalise those that cannot etc. I don't see the need for doom and gloom, however we HAVE to get a credible opposition to the conservatives.

 

Or then again, maybe it won't work because people are selfish cunts at the end of the day, or people are too ignorant to understand what is needed. At least one Corbynite on here has railed against the imposition of inheritance tax and property tax, for instance. Not a lot you can do if people persist thinking like that. Still, I maintain this is an alright country to live in though, but getting steadily worse.

[Rayvin 5217]

But again, you complain without offering any solutions.

 

Why can't a social democratic system with progressive taxation work for the large majority? It's wealth redistribution we have wrong in this country which could be easily remedied if we had the will. Privatise those services which could genuinely make efficiency gains through competition, nationalise those that cannot etc. I don't see the need for doom and gloom, however we HAVE to get a credible opposition to the conservatives.

 

Or then again, maybe it won't work because people are selfish cunts at the end of the day, or people are too ignorant to understand what is needed. At least one Corbynite on here has railed against the imposition of inheritance tax and property tax, for instance. Not a lot you can do if people persist thinking like that. Still, I maintain this is an alright country to live in though, but getting steadily worse.

 

Agreed, it probably can. That's what I feel like I'm voting for. What we have on offer at the moment though, and indeed at the previous GE, was/is something that the majority wouldn't vote for.

 

Actually, I think our whole disagreement can be boiled down to the following: We want ultimately the same basic thing, which you think the Blairite centre left can provide, and I don't (based solely on the fact that they're culpable in bringing us to this point). That genuinely seems to be our only point of contention for all your imagining of me as some kind of communist.

 

I have offered a solution btw, I 'suggested' a government that wasn't wedded to the Thatcherite notions of how society should be run. Granted it seems that the current iteration of this suggestion isn't sufficiently competent to make it work/get into power in the first place, but realistically there's no alternative if you believe, as I do, that the Blairites haven't actually understood what is going on. If they get back into power, the whole steady descent continues. Granted, not as quickly as under the Tories.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

Why does it though? Why couldn't labour reposition itself somewhere between the hard left Corbynites and the light touch regulation/war monger Blair?

 

If it did that, with the right leader, it could return to winning power and positively changing people's lives. I don't think the entire system has to be written off.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Dr Gloom

[Rayvin 5217]

Why does it though? Why couldn't labour reposition itself somewhere between the hard left Corbynites and the light touch regulation/war monger Blair?

 

If it did that, with the right leader, it could return to winning power and positively changing people's lives. I don't think the entire system has to be written off.

 

Corbyn isn't hard left.

 

But yes, between the two would still be better than nothing. That said, actually, as I said the other day - it's not necessarily about how left wing the government is. You could have a centrist reformer who understood and tackled these problems, and they'd be vote worthy in my book.

 

The entire system needs steady evolution to something sustainable. Unless you think that the constant drive to maximise profits is going to pay any attention to how many people are out of work once we have a fully automated workforce.

[Rayvin 5217]

Incidentally, the other solution to the issue is what is in the ascendency - the far right.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

He's an old trot man - course he's hard left

[Park Life 71]

Blair was parachuted in by the same cabal that parachuted in Manroc. Manroc was on 17 magazine covers one day last week and Goldman Le Penski was on none. The problem Labour have is that it is a balancing act now between getting the people on side and not pissing off the banks and the various interest groups that have great influence on our politicians. I believe it can be done. But it requires such slight of hand and charisma and such delicate nuance it is almost impossible to satisfy the various wings of the party and Big Corporations at the same time. But we have to try.

[NJS 4378]

On taxation, I think any changes even if I support them morally are pissing around the edges - I'd support going full on against avoidance and evasion especially offshore accounts.

[Park Life 71]

On taxation, I think any changes even if I support them morally are pissing around the edges - I'd support going full on against avoidance and evasion especially offshore accounts.

We have to go after the assets. But coming out with it immediately alienates vast sections of the well off never mind the super rich. Renton is right about progressive taxation but it has to be pitched carefully.

[Alex 35077]

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/uk/brexit-britain-tour-london-things-to-do-new-york-times-westminster-parliament-visits-a7726056.html

I'm getting the word 'mugs'

[ewerk 30597]

*Flights not included

 

 

[Happy Face 29]

On 2017-4-18 at 1:18 PM, Happy Face said:

 the banks have told May she has to sort this shit out. Open a door for a party or coalition that will reverse brexit.

 

The only people standing in their way are Corbyn and the British public. Can't trust those fucking mugs.

 

The polls say operation get the banks out of hard brexit is gaining momentum.  

 

I occasionally think this can be the only explanation for the vim with which the Tories seem to be going after the elderly and the young and foxes and elephants and those earning less than £80k and the sheer hypocrisy of not putting any numbers in a manifesto whatsoever while criticising the labour numbers.

 

Then I remember, they're Tories with a massive lead. It's just their natural urge coming out to punish the week and reward the strong because there's no need to chase votes from the middle ground.

[Renton 21606]

2 hours ago, Happy Face said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Happy Face said:

 

The polls say operation get the banks out of hard brexit is gaining momentum.  

 

I occasionally think this can be the only explanation for the vim with which the Tories seem to be going after the elderly and the young and foxes and elephants and those earning less than £80k and the sheer hypocrisy of not putting any numbers in a manifesto whatsoever while criticising the labour numbers.

 

Then I remember, they're Tories with a massive lead. It's just their natural urge coming out to punish the week and reward the strong because there's no need to chase votes from the middle ground.

 

True. They know they have it sown up so are barely even arsed to disguise their policies, some of which will hit their core demographics (e.g. the elderly). Once again though, this just underlines what a failure Corbyn is. The useless cunt. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by Renton