Renton 21234 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Well, he either needs to do that or convincingly shift the narrative elsewhere. He isn't going to turn around on immigration so the plan must be to hijack the narrative. It's doable, it's just unlikely to work since UKIP have already made and entrenched over about a decade their case for anti-immigration populism. It's really not doable. You seem to be making the same mistake as was done with Brexit by patronising people with talks of narratives as if immigration isn't a real issue in some parts of the country. Look at Corbyn, a lentil munching islingtonista who believes in virtual unlimited immigration and yet incredibly is also anti-EU. He is the epitome of what most Brexiteers despise. People will not vote for him, as has been proven in recent polls or by elections. Traditional labour won't vote him. Blairites like me might not. He's taking the party to oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 He's also very basically not clever enough, he really doesn't like the spotlight, can't think on his feet and can't sense weakness at PMQs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30221 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 The only thing he can do to improve labour's chances on an election is resign. That's not a flippant remark, it's a fact. He can't change his lifelong beliefs without appearing to be an unprincipled hypocrite, and the electorate don't support his beliefs. Also, labour under his leadership have been completely incoherent about Brexit and the post-Brexit world. This will be the main issue next election. Labour are fucked, in short. What's most depressing is they can't get their act together against a truly pathetic opposition. I agree with all of that but I think his biggest failing is that he is an entirely unimpressive man. Though he has been improving he still is not what you would call charismatic, not someone who you enjoy listening to. Compare that to Bernie Sanders. He may be a short arse, balding Jew espousing leftist politics but he grabs your attention and speaks with real force. Corbyn will never be that sort of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 It's really not doable. You seem to be making the same mistake as was done with Brexit by patronising people with talks of narratives as if immigration isn't a real issue in some parts of the country. Look at Corbyn, a lentil munching islingtonista who believes in virtual unlimited immigration and yet incredibly is also anti-EU. He is the epitome of what most Brexiteers despise. People will not vote for him, as has been proven in recent polls or by elections. Traditional labour won't vote him. Blairites like me might not. He's taking the party to oblivion. I'm not saying immigration isn't an issue, I'm just saying it isn't the only issue. If we consider that austerity is one of the main driving forces behind our current woes, then I think it would be possible to create a narrative around that which many people would buy into. That said, as I've mentioned, the ship may well have sailed on this front as the immigration rhetoric has been entirely unchallenged in the same way that the austerity rhetoric was entirely unchallenged. Labour has been so crap at identifying and challenging these positions for so long now that it's hardly a surprise that it is where it is. I'm not saying that this initiative -will- work. I'm saying that 1) they have to try something and 2) populist narratives are not limited to immigrants - other options are possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) I agree with all of that but I think his biggest failing is that he is an entirely unimpressive man. Though he has been improving he still is not what you would call charismatic, not someone who you enjoy listening to. Compare that to Bernie Sanders. He may be a short arse, balding Jew espousing leftist politics but he grabs your attention and speaks with real force. Corbyn will never be that sort of character. Yep, this makes sense but then Labour don't have anyone else in that mould. Moreover, I remain somewhat bemused that you guys think jettisoning Corbyn is going to bring the good times back for Labour. All I see it doing is alienating their 600k strong membership, a large proportion of whom will abandon the party if it heads back to the centre, and having to start all over again. I don't think I'd vote for them in future if they leave the left once again. Although to be honest, it's sorely tempting to just resign myself to the fact that my votes will always be meaningless and that I shouldn't bother. EDIT - If Corbyn stood down of his own accord it might go differently. Edited December 16, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44273 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Lads, it's about to be the weekend. Don't waste your Friday doing this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I think Menzies Campbell quit as liberal leader when polling showed he was a failure which you could call brave in that context. Trouble is Corbyn seems to be a stubborn bastard on that score. My worry would be that if he did go, the candidates willing to stand would either be unimpressive or unable to count on any support of the new members leading to Eagle/Smith calibre runners or worse Diane Abbot. It's a shitstorm really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) Vast maj of the electorate are told what they want. /MSM If Corby was presented and packaged in a different light by fair coverage we wouldn't be having this discussion. Labour are unelectable for a broad range of issues. Some of it is to do with leadership but not all. Edited December 16, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I think Menzies Campbell quit as liberal leader when polling showed he was a failure which you could call brave in that context. Trouble is Corbyn seems to be a stubborn bastard on that score. My worry would be that if he did go, the candidates willing to stand would either be unimpressive or unable to count on any support of the new members leading to Eagle/Smith calibre runners or worse Diane Abbot. It's a shitstorm really. Blair wants to come back innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Lads, it's about to be the weekend. Don't waste your Friday doing this again. Actually a very fair point, I don't have the energy for this today anyway. I'll get on with some work I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21802 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Vast maj of the electorate are told what they want. /MSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44273 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/17/labour-gains-two-points-since-november The comeback is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44273 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/dec/17/michael-sheen-to-swap-acting-for-activism-against-populist-right Meet your next Labour Prime Minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/dec/17/michael-sheen-to-swap-acting-for-activism-against-populist-right Meet your next Labour Prime Minister. Another deluded luvvie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30221 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Who says that our parliamentarians don't do anything worthwhile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Wait what? Was there a point in recent past where it's not been ok to say Happy Christmas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30221 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Also, this in the news today about the same good, god fearing, Christian MP. An MP will repay almost £14,000 in expenses after an investigation found his staff claimed for a quarter of all staff mileage by the entire House of Commons in 2014/15. Democratic Unionist Jim Shannon will pay back £13,926 in mileage claims after it was found that by the end of the 2014-15 financial year his staff had travelled 121,259 miles. The genuine claims were five times greater than the second highest claiming MP - and 37 times greater than the average across all MPs, a parliamentary watchdog said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44273 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Wait what? Was there a point in recent past where it's not been ok to say Happy Christmas? [emoji38]It's happy holidays now, you racist pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 It's happy holidays now, you racist pig. The Ctrl-Left strikes again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44273 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/19/no-10-accuses-striking-workers-of-contempt-for-ordinary-people PM issues a strongly worded statement accusing striking workers of "showing contempt" and causing "untold misery for ordinary people". Presumably furious because she sees that as her job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I have a colleague who is trying to fly back to Greece on Saturday to get home for Christmas but is likely to be at least delayed because of the Swissport strikes. His view is that he understands why it is happening, why they've chosen those days, but feels it is unfortunate that it affects him. That's a pretty solid response given that he might not see his ridiculously family-centric family for Christmas as a result. If he can look at it maturely and judge that people need to do this sometimes to protect their rights, then frankly the PM can fuck off. That said - Swissport look like they've offered the financials that were asked for, so I'm not even certain what the issue is anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34787 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Probably over the moon he has a ready-made excuse for not seeing them tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30221 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) Labour's shadow home secretary, Diane Abbott, again showing Labour's ability to lead, “It’s not my role to second-guess the decisions of trade union leadership.” Edited December 19, 2016 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21802 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Probably over the moon he has a ready-made excuse for not seeing them tbh Aye, I wish I had such a good excuse to get out of seeing any family this Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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