Dr Gloom 21568 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Momentum doing its best to dispel accusations of antisemitism http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/watch-anger-as-momentum-vice-chair-jackie-walker-criticises-holocaust-memorial-day-at-antisemitism-event_uk_57eb736de4b0e315f281c764?hda582kk4wa02j4i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29809 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) I guess you're right. And I suppose the same thing is also true of Brexit. I think he's offering a more positive message overall than Clinton though, at least in the small bits and pieces that seem to be reaching me. And I read the Guardian... That's natural though. With a popular Democratic incumbent Hillary can't really tell the electorate that everything is currently shit and she's going to fix it all. Trump is able to attack the last eight years of the presidency. Edited September 28, 2016 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 That's natural though. With a popular Democratic incumbent Hillary can't really tell the electorate that everything is currently shit and she's going to fix it all. Trump is able to attack the last eight years of the presidency. Fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29809 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Momentum doing its best to dispel accusations of antisemitism http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/watch-anger-as-momentum-vice-chair-jackie-walker-criticises-holocaust-memorial-day-at-antisemitism-event_uk_57eb736de4b0e315f281c764?hda582kk4wa02j4i Sometimes it's best just to shut your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Momentum doing its best to dispel accusations of antisemitism http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/watch-anger-as-momentum-vice-chair-jackie-walker-criticises-holocaust-memorial-day-at-antisemitism-event_uk_57eb736de4b0e315f281c764?hda582kk4wa02j4i That is rather dismal. This anti-semitism stuff is getting very annoying now, it's a total distraction from the main issues. It needs stamping out so what we can move on to actual policies. It'd be interesting to hear this woman explain her views when she's not on the spot but I don't think it leaves much left to say. I'm especially interested in whatever is meant by 'not found a definition of anti-semitism that I can work with'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21568 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 an ugly reality is antisemitism does exist among the socialist worker brigade and corbyn probably should be doing more to try to wipe it out. expelling the likes jackie walker would send out a positive message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I'll agree with you on that. De-toxifying the whole thing would send a very positive message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 an ugly reality is antisemitism does exist among the socialist worker brigade and corbyn probably should be doing more to try to wipe it out. expelling the likes jackie walker would send out a positive message. Dispatches spent 6 months ensconced inside Momentum trying to get anything they could to scandalise them and there wasn't a bit of antisemitism that they could point to, even behind closed doors. If there is antisemitism in the group then it seems to me that it's not overt or shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Dispatches spent 6 months ensconced inside Momentum trying to get anything they could to scandalise them and there wasn't a bit of antisemitism that they could point to, even behind closed doors. If there is antisemitism in the group then it seems to me that it's not overt or shared. Encouraging! Happy Face saving the day as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21568 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Dispatches spent 6 months ensconced inside Momentum trying to get anything they could to scandalise them and there wasn't a bit of antisemitism that they could point to, even behind closed doors. If there is antisemitism in the group then it seems to me that it's not overt or shared. give over. have you not read the vice chair's comments ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21568 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Shadow Defence Secretary Clive Lewis denounces ‘appalling anti-Semitism in Labour Party’ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-clive-lewis-antisemitism-speech-praise-rousing-appalling-party-a7333396.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I'm clearly going to yo-yo on this issue so I'll just say I don't approve of anti-semitism anywhere near Labour, and hope that if it exists, it can be stamped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21568 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Mike Katz, the national vice-chairman of the Jewish Labour Movement was heckled in the conference hall when he called for immediate action to tackle anti-Semitism. jewish media conspiracy innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 give over. have you not read the vice chair's comments ? Yeah, which comments crossed the line for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21568 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) that there isn't a "definition of antisemtism she can work with." her naivety about holocaust day exposed an agenda too. why say such a thing at an event designed to challenge antisemitism? regrettably, this problem does exist within the Labour party's hard left. why else would the vice-chairman of the Jewish Labour Movement be heckled in the main conference hall for suggesting the issue is addressed? Denying there is a problem is naive at best. Edited September 28, 2016 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I'll agree her comments could lead you to call her ignorant. But she says nothing derogatory or inflammatory. Many of us have spent hours on here discussing whether there is a definition of Islamophobia that we can work with. And there isn't. The criminalisation of boycotts, the sacking of pundits for legitimate criticism of Israel etc are all part of the antisemitism label being tagged onto owt that dares do anything but bow down in full support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43234 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 jewish media conspiracy innit Unkool for Katz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 As an aside, to everyone's great surprise no doubt, MH17 was shot down by Russian equipment: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/28/flight-mh17-shot-down-by-missile-brought-in-from-russia-ukraine-malaysia-airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Just reading through the talking points from Labour conference, this one seems quite interesting: Labour is split over how to interpret the Brexit vote. Many MPs believe that immigration was a key factor and increasingly there are calls for the party to abandon its commitment to the free movement of labour. But Corbyn sees the Brexit vote as primarily a vote against the economic status quo and, as he confirmed this morning, he is opposed to immigration controls. Interestingly, this is one issue where Labour’s old right, which is sceptical about immigration, disagrees with the pro-free movement Blairite right. On this topic Corbyn is a Blairite. Again, I'd naturally agree with Corbyn on this - and by extension, Blair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Also: Momentum is not Militant, and they can run a lively, successful conference. One of the highlights of Liverpool has been Momentum’s The World Transformed alternative conference (or festival, as they prefer to call it) taking place about half a mile away. Anyone turning up expecting a Militant re-enactment will have been disappointed. Outside there were older, hard-core lefties selling “deselect your MP” literature. But as journalists like Andrew Grice(here) and Paul Mason (here) report, inside it was full of young, earnest, welcoming activists seemingly with no interest in becoming the next Derek Hatton. In the long run it is till not clear what impact Momentum will have on Labour, but this week its reputation has gone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34286 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 As an aside, to everyone's great surprise no doubt, MH17 was shot down by Russian equipment: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/28/flight-mh17-shot-down-by-missile-brought-in-from-russia-ukraine-malaysia-airlines I was saying to someone the other day that the talk of Russian war crimes in Syria isn't likely to cause much of a stir there given they shot that plane down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15199 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 There's definitely a self-awareness issue in a lot of Labour's current issues. I imagine a lot of the voters they need to attract have no idea what Momentum is, why it's being talked about so much, why there's a conflict with the PLP, why there's even a specific term like "PLP" in the first place and why it keeps getting waved around as if it's common parlance, etc. It all seems quite inward-looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21568 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) I'll agree her comments could lead you to call her ignorant. But she says nothing derogatory or inflammatory. Many of us have spent hours on here discussing whether there is a definition of Islamophobia that we can work with. And there isn't. The criminalisation of boycotts, the sacking of pundits for legitimate criticism of Israel etc are all part of the antisemitism label being tagged onto owt that dares do anything but bow down in full support. you're in denial. clearly there is a distinction to be made between being critical of israel and being antisemitic. but too many times recently, labour has on the wrong side of the line. what hitler did was legal, according to naz shah and ken livingstone, remember? meanwhile labour mp wes streeting has just accused pro-corbyn activists of handing out antisemitic leaflets at the momentum event at the labour conference in liverpool. this is not a media conspiracy. it's a real issue that corbyn has to address if he wants to avoid losing even more credibility. there will always be lunatics on the fringe of any political movement but unless corbyn does something about it, even more long time jewish labour activists will leave the party. labour is in real danger of losing its reputation as the party of tolerance. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/almost-nine-in-ten-british-jews-believe-labour-is-soft-on-anti-semitism-poll-finds-a7333676.html https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/27/jewish-labour-members-unified-party-faiths-views Edited September 28, 2016 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) There's definitely a self-awareness issue in a lot of Labour's current issues. I imagine a lot of the voters they need to attract have no idea what Momentum is, why it's being talked about so much, why there's a conflict with the PLP, why there's even a specific term like "PLP" in the first place and why it keeps getting waved around as if it's common parlance, etc. It all seems quite inward-looking. Aye that's true - I'd not come across the term PLP before all this nonsense broke out. They need to unify, that's pretty much all there is to it. We can stop talking about the PLP if they just get back together, hammer out their differences, and remember that the main thing, really, is to attack the Tories and not each other. Edited September 28, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 you're in denial. clearly there is a distinction to be made between being critical of israel and being antisemitic. but too many times recently, labour has on the wrong side of the line. what hitler did was legal, according to naz shah and ken livingstone, remember? Did Naz Shah or Livingston state that what Hitler did was legal?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now