adios 717 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 I assume he's down where it matters (in the polls) and marginally up in this election? Yes, I am too lazy to google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 (edited) I'm still kind of glad he won. The debate is clearly shifting away from the centre to the wings, and unfortunately, I think the fearmongers on the right win in that event, but honestly at this point, if they can't vote for their own good, fuck 'em. Edited September 24, 2016 by adios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 That's true, but it's also irrelevant. The Murdoch press will have anyone remotely left leaning for breakfast, and the answer for the Labour Party cannot be to keep moving right until they become acceptable to Rupert Murdoch. Until people in this country can resist being led around by the likes of Murdoch, then quite honestly they deserve what they end up with. And until they do, I'm done worrying about them. I'm gonna pay my mortgage off and start saving for retirement under whatever government is in power. If those in a less advantageous position than me want to keep voting to be further disadvantaged, that's none of my fucking business. It's depressing, if you allow it to be, but it's their own stupid fault. By the way, none of the above is Jeremy Corbyn's fault. Nice post. The only real collateral damage with this outlook are those who are needy and who are actually voting correctly. That said, you can't win them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20620 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Nice post. The only real collateral damage with this outlook are those who are needy and who are actually voting correctly. That said, you can't win them all. It's easy for people with little to lose under a Tory government (middle class, secure non public sector jobs) to be idealistic and support a man who can't win though isn't it? And then have the audacity to blame the peasents for it. From my point of view, that is the betrayal. Think about that in 10 years when you're using your private healthcare because the Tories have irrevocably destroyed the nhs. Then think, maybe a more electable alternative could have stopped this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4281 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 It's easy for people with little to lose under a Tory government (middle class, secure non public sector jobs) to be idealistic and support a man who can't win though isn't it? And then have the audacity to blame the peasents for it. From my point of view, that is the betrayal. Think about that in 10 years when you're using your private healthcare because the Tories have irrevocably destroyed the nhs. Then think, maybe a more electable alternative could have stopped this.New Labour did nothing to prevent privatisation and in fact encouraged it - and thats exactly the direction you want them to go in to win power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20620 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 New Labour did nothing to prevent privatisation and in fact encouraged it - and thats exactly the direction you want them to go in to win power. The NHS would have been safe under New Labour. Don't give me this bullshit PFI is privatisation, New Labour utterly transformed the NHS after decades of decline and never did you have to pay for it. Anyway, I'm going to have a beer now for the match so will suspend activity on this thread until tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4281 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 It wasn't just pfi - they outsourced and encouraged an internal market in the name of "choice" and allowed hospitals to engage with private Healthcare firms. All of these were "signallers" to what's going on now and intended for the future I wouldn't regard it as "safe" under a Smith government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43234 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 It's easy for people with little to lose under a Tory government (middle class, secure non public sector jobs) to be idealistic and support a man who can't win though isn't it? And then have the audacity to blame the peasents for it. From my point of view, that is the betrayal. Think about that in 10 years when you're using your private healthcare because the Tories have irrevocably destroyed the nhs. Then think, maybe a more electable alternative could have stopped this.It's nothing to do with being idealistic or supporting Corbyn though. It's not Corbyn that's unelectable, it's the Left, and we've reached that point because of the power of the media in this country. There are two solutions - become Tory lite enough to get back into power, or stick to your guns and wait for the people to realise the error of their ways. Because eventually they'll either realise that they're getting fucked by the Tories and vote for the Left, or they'll realise that the Left can't win and replace Corbyn with someone prepared to become Tory lite. But lumping all of the blame on Corbyn for not choosing option 1 is daft when he's been put in the job precisely because he won't choose option 1. You need to let the process play itself out, and that includes Labour MPs getting behind their leader to at least try to form an opposition. The way they've carried on has been way more damaging to the Labour party as an opposition force than has the election of Corbyn as leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4542 Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 It's nothing to do with being idealistic or supporting Corbyn though. It's not Corbyn that's unelectable, it's the Left, and we've reached that point because of the power of the media in this country. There are two solutions - become Tory lite enough to get back into power, or stick to your guns and wait for the people to realise the error of their ways. Because eventually they'll either realise that they're getting fucked by the Tories and vote for the Left, or they'll realise that the Left can't win and replace Corbyn with someone prepared to become Tory lite. But lumping all of the blame on Corbyn for not choosing option 1 is daft when he's been put in the job precisely because he won't choose option 1. You need to let the process play itself out, and that includes Labour MPs getting behind their leader to at least try to form an opposition. The way they've carried on has been way more damaging to the Labour party as an opposition force than has the election of Corbyn as leader. This would be lovely if it was all new, but it's just history repeating itself from the 80's and before. This country will NEVER elect a far left government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43234 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Shut your face, big tits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 You don't have to be far left, just anything having a government that doesn't have anything but utter contempt for anybody born without an offshore trust fund would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16726 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 This would be lovely if it was all new, but it's just history repeating itself from the 80's and before. This country will NEVER elect a far left government. They voted for new labour who you've variously described as hard left and not being a fag paper away from the Tories so I think I know where to file this. Being anti austerity and anti cuts is hard left according to the Murdoch press. Who also wanted Brexit. Which Corbyn and the proper far left wanted as well. So you can stick your media inspired labels up your arse sunshine. It's over for Labour but it doesn't need to be. If one side accepts where the err "talent" actually is in the party and the talent accepts that things have to be done differently from the neo liberal bullshit of the last twenty years then they'll be getting somewhere. Tbh though I fully expect another split towards the lib Dems. Which didn't work for them last time. The Labour "brand" was too big to die then, not sure about now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20620 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 To summarise, labour's heart has disconnected from its brain. I've been in healthcare long enough to know whichever way that was caused, it's inevitably fatal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Nicely phrased but I'm not sure it's necessarily true for Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21568 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I'm absolutely seething at what Russia is doing in Syria. The pictures and reports coming out of Aleppo since the ceasefire are beyond the pale. It's sickening and it has to stop. But where is the noise? Why isnt the left in this country protesting against it? Where is the stop the war coalition? Why isn't Corbyn banging the drum on this issue? Is it because it's Russian imperialistic atrocities that are being committed? They only seem to speak out of it's the west or Israel behind shit like this. And I'm sorry but the fact that Edward Snowden is holed up with these wankers, one of the most vile regimes in the world, seriously undermines his credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21568 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 They're carpet bombing innocent civilians. The latest round of air strikes have been described by the UN as war crimes. Fucking sick bastards and their proxy war bullshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29809 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Just you wait til Corbyn takes power and he sends in his Peace and Disarmament minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 You've framed this as a left wing issue so at the risk of poking the hornet nest, is Russian carpet bombing of civilians worse than our carpet bombing of civilians? In other words, are they collateral or are they actually being targeted? Remember that we have a track record of blowing up hospitals and red cross outposts which many people on here have argued is unfortunate but, as they're collateral, isn't morally equivalent to murder or terrorism. I disagree with this when you know that these places are going to be hit as part of an action you're taking, but apparently others don't. Have the Russians made clear that they're attacking random civilians on principle or something? Also the coalitions you mention are there to stop our atrocities, not Russia's. I think we can safely assume that they condemn the Russian bombings. That said, Russia seriously pisses me off with all of this nonsense. I can see why they feel the need to present a strong front to the Americans but I thought they'd established a little while ago that their approach of blowing everything up wasn't working. Both sides need to step down from this war, it's become fucking ridiculous. Aren't we all supposedly there for ISIS? Are they even still in Syria? How has this whole fiasco not been resolved yet? Why we or any other country entertain these fucked up wars is beyond me. I agree with gloom that media focus should be put on it though. Pictures of wounded and dead. Same as I think they should do this when we're responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I see Russia has claimed a new world war could be upon us if the Saudis send troops in. I have no idea why Putin is so confident that he'd win this war, especially with Israel on his doorstep. That said, Russia is one of these stupid countries where they 'can't back down' as nationalism has taken such a strong hold. Much like China. Not sure what the UN is going to be able to do about this really, for all its cries of warcrimes. Russia will just brand it a US mouthpiece. I can't remember who kicked this off now, was it us? Supporting rebels against Assad or something like that? Or did the Russians just respond to the rebels and then we got dragged in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20620 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Well thanks to Ed Miliband we have very little direct blame for Syria although indirectly we helped set up ISIS I guess. A new world war in Syria? Eschatological fetishists will be getting collective hard ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29809 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Nah, nobody is that arsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5131 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) Well thanks to Ed Miliband we have very little direct blame for Syria although indirectly we helped set up ISIS I guess. A new world war in Syria? Eschatological fetishists will be getting collective hard ons. True, we weren't involved, thank fuck. Shame about the rest of the Western world. Edited September 25, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 And I'm sorry but the fact that Edward Snowden is holed up with these wankers, one of the most vile regimes in the world, seriously undermines his credibility. The United States revoked his passport after he left Hong Kong and before he landed in Russia en route to havana. He's like Tom Hank's in that film where he's stuck in the terminal. Forget what it was called. Except he's not bucking Zeta Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Latest poll (14/09) has Corbyn pulling 4% more of the vote than Labor got in the last GE. http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4542 Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) Latest poll (14/09) has Corbyn pulling 4% more of the vote than Labor got in the last GE. http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2 Latest poll (Saturday) 4% less than Labour got at the last General Election. Edited September 26, 2016 by Christmas Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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