Politics

[Renton 22449]

That's what people have said for a year. And his popularity has increased

Fucks sake.

[Rayvin 5572]

The Murdoch press have been having him for breakfast since before he became leader, and he's just won again with a higher percentage of a larger turnout.

He's not bovvered

 

I'm not sure how statistically relevant it is, but his increased margin doesn't include the 130,000, presumably predominantly Corbyn aligned, voters who couldn't participate. Had they participated, fuck knows how large the margin would have been.

[Renton 22449]

He'll only fail if the most vulnerable are too stupid to vote for him and end up running off to UKIP as CT envisages. If they do that, they deserve the Tories in power.

 

The more important thing is that we actually have a political debate about what this country should look like within reach now, instead of two parties trying to out-compete each other for the centre-ground with flimsy policy differences.

 

The Tories will see this as an open goal for the GE but they have to be - have to be - terrified of the possibility that he'll win. That alone could inspire them to enact better policies.

What a lot of these new members joining has masked is the amount of long standing members who have resigned. My wife, a labour party member of 25 years, has had enough. Anecdotal maybe but there are thousands of people like this and these were the people who worked to get labour in power after the catastrophe of the 80s. It'll be interesting to see how this mixture of entryist trots, left wing unionists, and middle class newcomers like yourself fill the void.

 

Also, the shadow cabinet is going to be full of quality isn't it.

 

What a joke. Labour

Edited September 24, 2016 by Renton

[Renton 22449]

I'm not sure how statistically relevant it is, but his increased margin doesn't include the 130,000, presumably predominantly Corbyn aligned, voters who couldn't participate. Had they participated, fuck knows how large the margin would have been.

Less than 0.5% of the electorate. You know, the people who matter?

[Rayvin 5572]

What a lot of these new members joining has masked is the amount of long standing members who have resigned. My wife, a labour party member of 25 years, has had enough. Anecdotal maybe but there are thousands of people like this and these were the people who worked to get labour in power after the catastrophe of the 80s. It'll be interesting to see how this mixture of entryist trots, left wing unionists, and middle class newcomers like yourself fill the void.

 

Also, the shadow cabinet is going to be full of quality isn't it.

 

What a joke. Labour

 

I don't think enough of you are leaving that the party won't end up with a net higher number...

 

It's sad of course that you did leave, though with the shambles of the last year I can see why (although I spread blame more evenly than you on this), but the thing that's bothering me is whether or not you are leaving because you just don't agree with his policies, or if it's because you don't think he can win? If the latter, that's a stupid reason to leave. Sorry but it is. That's just tribalism. If it's the policies then fair enough.

 

The Shadow Cabinet will be interesting - it could be great if some of the PLP heavyweights get their heads out of their collective arses. We'll have to see on that front.

 

I think the Party will do fine if it can be stabilised early enough. It all depends on the PLP really.

[Rayvin 5572]

Less than 0.5% of the electorate. You know, the people who matter?

 

Because of course, all of the electorate are going to vote against him. And all the additional money which they're raising through having such large numbers won't help at all in campaigning, will it?

 

It's happened, let's just see where it goes. For what it's worth, true to my word, I didn't vote in the end. I abstained. But I can't deny I'm pleased with the result.

[Renton 22449]

I don't think enough of you are leaving that the party won't end up with a net higher number...

 

It's sad of course that you did leave, though with the shambles of the last year I can see why (although I spread blame more evenly than you on this), but the thing that's bothering me is whether or not you are leaving because you just don't agree with his policies, or if it's because you don't think he can win? If the latter, that's a stupid reason to leave. Sorry but it is. That's just tribalism. If it's the policies then fair enough.

 

The Shadow Cabinet will be interesting - it could be great if some of the PLP heavyweights get their heads out of their collective arses. We'll have to see on that front.

 

I think the Party will do fine if it can be stabilised early enough. It all depends on the PLP really.

80% of the PLP have voted no confidence in him. There's no way back for them, they can't state that he's suddenly competent can they? Do the shadow cabinet will have to come from the remaining 20%. Led by Corbyn.

 

You missed my point about all those people with decades experience leaving. These are the grass roots if the party, the workers. You might be surprised how much work goes behind the scenes at every election. I doubt the rag tag 3 quidders will fill the gap.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Renton

[Renton 22449]

Because of course, all of the electorate are going to vote against him. And all the additional money which they're raising through having such large numbers won't help at all in campaigning, will it?

 

It's happened, let's just see where it goes. For what it's worth, true to my word, I didn't vote in the end. I abstained. But I can't deny I'm pleased with the result.

 

See my post above. Also, for the record, I was paying more than 10 times as much PER YEAR as a member than the latest cohort are. It's a one off windfall which won't go far.

[Rayvin 5572]

80% of the PLP have voted no confidence in him. There's no way back for them, they can't state that he's suddenly competent can they? Do the shadow cabinet will have to come from the remaining 20%. Led by Corbyn.

 

You missed my point about all those people with decades experience leaving. These are the grass roots if the party, the workers. You might be surprised how much work goes behind the scenes at every election. I doubt the rag tag 3 quidders will fill the gap.

 

You and I clearly have different views on what PLP career politicians are prepared to do, but you may be right. As I said, we'll see.

 

And as for the rest, I think Momentum might have it covered...

[Rayvin 5572]

See my post above. Also, for the record, I was paying more than 10 times as much PER YEAR as a member than the latest cohort are. It's a one off windfall which won't go far.

 

For the record, I acknowledge that you paid 10 times as much per year as a member than the latest cohort are. I give £10 a month personally and I'm not sure where the falls on your scale, but either way, if there's a lot of people in and around my level, they should be ok.

[Renton 22449]

You and I clearly have different views on what PLP career politicians are prepared to do, but you may be right. As I said, we'll see.

 

And as for the rest, I think Momentum might have it covered...

Well it's not that simple. Momentum would deselect most standing MPs. But then what? Take my MP, who I'd say is a solid constituency MP in a mixed working class / middle class area. If deselected I would hope he stands as an independent, which is his right. I'd bet he'd gain more votes than any momentum backed official Labour candidate. Not enough to win though, leaving the doors wide open to the Tories. The 80s again. What a mess.

[NJS 4446]

80% of the PLP have voted no confidence in him. There's no way back for them, they can't state that he's suddenly competent can they? Do the shadow cabinet will have to come from the remaining 20%. Led by Corbyn. [emoji38]

 

You missed my point about all those people with decades experience leaving. These are the grass roots if the party, the workers. You might be surprised how much work goes behind the scenes at every election. I doubt the rag tag 3 quidders will fill the gap.

59% of full members voted for Corbyn according to Robert Peston. Edited September 24, 2016 by NJS

[Christmas Tree 4920]

Maybe we'll now see some real policies rather than empty slogans. His vision for funding the NHS and social care, the economy and where the monies coming from.

 

No party even comes close to having a chance unless they have a solid economic policy.

[Howmanheyman 34479]

He was elected, they should've just respected it rather than the shambles which has occurred for months which has lead to the same outcome. If he lost an election and didn't resign then fair enough, but that wasn't the case and like a boyfriend parents don't approve of, they've probably strengthened the resolve of Corbyn and his supporters by their actions. The unelectable stuff is a bit rich coming from a (by comparison), unified party under Miliband who couldn't even dent the Tories who should've been there for the taking. I'm not really interested in internal politics, more shining a torch on the real enemy. I agree it's extremely unlikely he'll win, but that's been helped in no small part by the infighting and resignations. Put it another way, too, he's still more chance of securing a victory than Eagle or Smith.

[Christmas Tree 4920]

Couple of interesting points from the result.

 

Out of those who were members pre 2015, 63% voted for Smith.

 

Also Smith won the 18-24 year olds 55% to 45%

[Renton 22449]

59% of full members voted for Corbyn according to Robert Peston.

Loads had left already though.

[Renton 22449]

He was elected, they should've just respected it rather than the shambles which has occurred for months which has lead to the same outcome. If he lost an election and didn't resign then fair enough, but that wasn't the case and like a boyfriend parents don't approve of, they've probably strengthened the resolve of Corbyn and his supporters by their actions. The unelectable stuff is a bit rich coming from a (by comparison), unified party under Miliband who couldn't even dent the Tories who should've been there for the taking. I'm not really interested in internal politics, more shining a torch on the real enemy. I agree it's extremely unlikely he'll win, but that's been helped in no small part by the infighting and resignations. Put it another way, too, he's still more chance of securing a victory than Eagle or Smith.

You're completely wrong, Owen Smith, although still damage limitation, would have massively out performed Corbyn with the people who matter , the electorate. Has nobody checked the latest polls and bothered to put them in the context of the stage of the electoral cycle and how unpopular the Tories are (or should be)? If labour get anywhere near as seats as 83 I'll be amazed.

[Rayvin 5572]

You're completely wrong, Owen Smith, although still damage limitation, would have massively out performed Corbyn with the people who matter , the electorate. Has nobody checked the latest polls and bothered to put them in the context of the stage of the electoral cycle and how unpopular the Tories are (or should be)? If labour get anywhere near as seats as 83 I'll be amazed.

 

That's the statement then. Labour won't get more than 83 seats according to Renton. At least that's a line in the sand that we can come back to and pore over in 4 years time

 

Incidentally, where are those votes going to go? Presumably CT is now right about UKIP?

 

 

Loads had left already though.

 

There must be stats for this somewhere? Would be interesting to see if anyone has them.

[Rayvin 5572]

Maybe we'll now see some real policies rather than empty slogans. His vision for funding the NHS and social care, the economy and where the monies coming from.

 

No party even comes close to having a chance unless they have a solid economic policy.

 

I dunno, the Tories did pretty well with plugging austerity, and that's now provably economic horseshit. I don't think it needs to be solid, it just needs to be in the favour of the super wealthy.

 

Admittedly, Corbyn is going to fall down there.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Rayvin

[Christmas Tree 4920]

That's the statement then. Labour won't get more than 83 seats according to Renton. At least that's a line in the sand that we can come back to and pore over in 4 years time

 

Incidentally, where are those votes going to go? Presumably CT is now right about UKIP?

 

 

 

There must be stats for this somewhere? Would be interesting to see if anyone has them.

I'm always right. For a bright lad it's taking a while to sink in

[Renton 22449]

That's the statement then. Labour won't get more than 83 seats according to Renton. At least that's a line in the sand that we can come back to and pore over in 4 years time

 

Incidentally, where are those votes going to go? Presumably CT is now right about UKIP?

 

 

 

There must be stats for this somewhere? Would be interesting to see if anyone has them.

?? 209 seats. Still a disaster.

 

Edit: I meant 1983 man.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Renton

[Renton 22449]

Oh, and twice as many people have left the labour party since Corbyn was elected as is usual, that will massively spike today.

 

Also CT 's stats contradict NJS's I see. Think CT's look right to me.

[Gemmill 47139]

The Murdoch press will have him for breakfast if he's still there in 2020. He's unelectable.

That's true, but it's also irrelevant. The Murdoch press will have anyone remotely left leaning for breakfast, and the answer for the Labour Party cannot be to keep moving right until they become acceptable to Rupert Murdoch.

 

Until people in this country can resist being led around by the likes of Murdoch, then quite honestly they deserve what they end up with. And until they do, I'm done worrying about them. I'm gonna pay my mortgage off and start saving for retirement under whatever government is in power. If those in a less advantageous position than me want to keep voting to be further disadvantaged, that's none of my fucking business. It's depressing, if you allow it to be, but it's their own stupid fault.

 

By the way, none of the above is Jeremy Corbyn's fault.

[Rayvin 5572]

?? 209 seats. Still a disaster.

 

Edit: I meant 1983 man.

 

 

Oh. That does make more sense.

[ewerk 31598]

That's what people have said for a year. And his popularity has increased

Has it?