Politics

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3843]

I'm hoping the relentless negative campaigning of the Tories will be counterproductive, plus Miliband has performed much better than I feared. I do fear the SNP will really fuck things up though. They may be left wing but a party whose raison d'etre is the break up of the union and who seem economically deceitful (being polite) leaves a horrible taste on the mouth.

 

Fuck football and politics!

 

What the fuck are you on about?

[Andrew 4720]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/nationalist-scotland-voters-photograph-ballot-papers-general-election

Genius! If enough follow their plan then half of them will end up missing out on voting.

[ewerk 30297]

I'm hoping the relentless negative campaigning of the Tories will be counterproductive, plus Miliband has performed much better than I feared. I do fear the SNP will really fuck things up though. They may be left wing but a party whose raison d'etre is the break up of the union and who seem economically deceitful (being polite) leaves a horrible taste on the mouth.

 

Fuck football and politics!

 

What I find even more deceitful is the English parties spending months telling the people of Scotland that they want them to stay and that they're very much a valued part of the UK but then turning round and saying that they'll refuse to work with their elected representatives despite being likely to be the third largest party in the next parliament.

[Renton 21364]

 

What the fuck are you on about?

The SNP are bad news for the north of England imo. And I don't think their policies are economically viable so I also think they're bad news for Scotland. There's a good chance they'll split the vote and we'll all end up with a conservative led government again which I think would be disastrous.

 

I know you disagree but I'd have thought my viewpoint was fairly clear.

[Gemmill 44425]

 

What I find even more deceitful is the English parties spending months telling the people of Scotland that they want them to stay and that they're very much a valued part of the UK but then turning round and saying that they'll refuse to work with their elected representatives despite being likely to be the third largest party in the next parliament.

Aye that's been pretty appalling. You can't disregard the election choice of an entire nation.

[Park Life 71]

The Scottish Labour vote to some extent used to counter the Tory vote in the South East. Labour are really hamstrung now. If only the SNP would drop this independence lark.

[Renton 21364]

 

What I find even more deceitful is the English parties spending months telling the people of Scotland that they want them to stay and that they're very much a valued part of the UK but then turning round and saying that they'll refuse to work with their elected representatives despite being likely to be the third largest party in the next parliament.

Maybe, but what choice do Labour have? The can't be seen to working with a party that'll ultimately split the union, they'd be massacred in England if that happened.

 

I honestly don't understand what the Scot's problem with Labour is. Under Labour, they were given devolution and more power is coming their way. But they voted no to full independence in the referendum, which was meant to be a once in a generation chance. And now they are landsliding towards a result which won't benefit any of us and is increasingly alienating the English.

[Park Life 71]

The SNP are bad news for the north of England imo. And I don't think their policies are economically viable so I also think they're bad news for Scotland. There's a good chance they'll split the vote and we'll all end up with a conservative led government again which I think would be disastrous.

 

I know you disagree but I'd have thought my viewpoint was fairly clear.

What's more irritating is that most of them are proper lefties.

[NJS 4373]

I think all of the Westminster elite thought that once the referendum finished, they'd forget about it and go back to voting labour which is easier to cope with for both parties.

[Renton 21364]

Aye that's been pretty appalling. You can't disregard the election choice of an entire nation.

Yet you can't have 10% dictating to the 90% either, it's ridiculous.

[ewerk 30297]

Maybe, but what choice do Labour have? The can't be seen to working with a party that'll ultimately split the union, they'd be massacred in England if that happened.

 

I honestly don't understand what the Scot's problem with Labour is. Under Labour, they were given devolution and more power is coming their way. But they voted no to full independence in the referendum, which was meant to be a once in a generation chance. And now they are landsliding towards a result which won't benefit any of us and is increasingly alienating the English.

 

The SNP are more than a single issue party though and I imagine they would gladly accept that there will not be another referendum in the next parliament in return for a seat at the table.

[ewerk 30297]

Yet you can't have 10% dictating to the 90% either, it's ridiculous.

 

Did the Lib Dems dictate to the Tories?

[Alex 34877]

 

What I find even more deceitful is the English parties spending months telling the people of Scotland that they want them to stay and that they're very much a valued part of the UK but then turning round and saying that they'll refuse to work with their elected representatives despite being likely to be the third largest party in the next parliament.

Aye, proper toys out the pram from both the main parties although the Tories in particular are pissed off for obvious reasons.

[NJS 4373]

Yet you can't have 10% dictating to the 90% either, it's ridiculous.

That's always been my problem with PR to be honest - Clegg and worse having power disproportionate to their support. Like last time clegg insisting that brown step down as leader as a condition for talks - how the fuck is that up to him?

[Renton 21364]

 

Did the Lib Dems dictate to the Tories?

No, but you haven't addressed my primary point, Labour CAN'T be seen to be dealing with the SNP. Because whatever you say, their primary objective is full independence.

[Alex 34877]

Yet you can't have 10% dictating to the 90% either, it's ridiculous.

They aren't going to dictate too much if they get into bed with Labour imo. Anything that appears to see them siding with the Tories is likely to be pretty damaging for them.

[ewerk 30297]

No, but you haven't addressed my primary point, Labour CAN'T be seen to be dealing with the SNP. Because whatever you say, their primary objective is full independence.

 

And as I said, independence would be taken off the table as a condition for a coalition which makes it moot.

 

Refusing to work the SNP is essentially disenfranchising an entire nation and is only going to alienate the Scots and increase support for independence.

Edited May 6, 2015 by ewerk

[Renton 21364]

 

And as I said, independence would be taken off the table as a condition for a coalition which makes it moot.

It's a moot point because Labour can't form a coalition with the SNP. They would lose too much support in England (and is surely impossible after last week). The Scots should get back to their Labour supporring roots and be thankful they have devolution, the ungrateful bastards!

[Alex 34877]

All Miliband had to say was that he'd be prepared to talk to any parties in the event of a hung Parliament.

[Renton 21364]

 

And as I said, independence would be taken off the table as a condition for a coalition which makes it moot.

 

Refusing to work the SNP is essentially disenfranchising an entire nation and is only going to alienate the Scots and increase support for independence.

I think it's going to happen either way now unfortunately, which is catastrophic for the NE.

[Park Life 71]

Still think Labour will go into a partnership with the SNP to make Milli PM. Neither would dream of letting the Tories sneak another 5 years.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3843]

Maybe, but what choice do Labour have? The can't be seen to working with a party that'll ultimately split the union, they'd be massacred in England if that happened.

 

I honestly don't understand what the Scot's problem with Labour is. Under Labour, they were given devolution and more power is coming their way. But they voted no to full independence in the referendum, which was meant to be a once in a generation chance. And now they are landsliding towards a result which won't benefit any of us and is increasingly alienating the English.

Michael McCann

Jim Murphy

Douglas Alexander

Adam Ingram etc etc....

 

The Labour have ignored Scotland for decades. Devolution was a sop to halt the progress of the SNP. The Labour party are just as right wing as the tories. The anti scottish sentiment during the referendum. Labour party councillors calling SNP supporters vermin. Pardophile rings in Westminster.

 

Lot's of things the Scot's have against Labour. It's just in Scotland we have a viable non tory alternative.

[TheDimpleboy 0]

Miliband has played a blinder regarding the SNP - any accusations of Sturgeon holding him to ransom are now pure scaremongering propaganda.

He can't go back on his word regarding coalitions/deals with the SNP - or Labour will be unelectable for a generation

However assuming opinion polls are correct, the Conservative party, even with Lib Dem's, UKIP and the DUP totalled in, will fall short of the total needed for a majority. So Labour + the SNP (and quite likely the Lib Dems, although it's not necessary for them to do so) will vote down the Tory Queen Speech, allowing Miliband to propose his - which would then be accepted.

The SNP are basically in a corner, they cannot return to Scotland having A. supported a Tory Queen Speech or B. failed to have backed a Labour Queen Speech. The SNP will be forced to back a Labour manifesto - or have to return to their own electorate having allowed another 5 years of Tory rule, which would be suicide.

AND, Miliband knows the few things in his manifesto that the SNP won't back in the HOC such as Trident, will be backed by the Tories anyway. So the SNP in effect will have no influence over policy whatsoever.

I could be very wrong, but this might have backfired for the Tories tremendously.

[Renton 21364]

@KCG

 

Compared to northern England the Scots get a fantastic deal from Westminster. If you think Labour are the same as the conservatives, you kind of make the point that a workable arrangement is unachievable. Tbh though KCG I think your views are quite extreme and emotionally led.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Renton

[Renton 21364]

 

Miliband has played a blinder regarding the SNP - any accusations of Sturgeon holding him to ransom are now pure scaremongering propaganda.

 

He can't go back on his word regarding coalitions/deals with the SNP - or Labour will be unelectable for a generation

 

However assuming opinion polls are correct, the Conservative party, even with Lib Dem's, UKIP and the DUP totalled in, will fall short of the total needed for a majority. So Labour + the SNP (and quite likely the Lib Dems, although it's not necessary for them to do so) will vote down the Tory Queen Speech, allowing Miliband to propose his - which would then be accepted.

 

The SNP are basically in a corner, they cannot return to Scotland having A. supported a Tory Queen Speech or B. failed to have backed a Labour Queen Speech. The SNP will be forced to back a Labour manifesto - or have to return to their own electorate having allowed another 5 years of Tory rule, which would be suicide.

 

AND, Miliband knows the few things in his manifesto that the SNP won't back in the HOC such as Trident, will be backed by the Tories anyway. So the SNP in effect will have no influence over policy whatsoever.

 

I could be very wrong, but this might have backfired for the Tories tremendously.

Really hope you're right.